At what point do people start focussing seriously on secondary choices?

[Elibean]

I don't mean those who've had to put kids' names down at birth, or plot pre- and primary school education with a sole aim to getting child into specific secondary.

I mean parents of happy, reasonably bright kids at state primaries.

dd1 is only in Y3, but parents are starting to talk about it already...whether the local secondary will be 'good enough' (whatever that means) by the time they are in Y7, whether tutoring between now and then is a good idea in order to keep options open/improve sats for streaming purposes (again, whatever that means), whether more Free schools will open in the area....whether the Indies in the area are good/achievable/desirable...and on and on.

Personally, I feel just like I did when dd was 3 and I was asked about Primaries. In other words, woefully clueless - should I quit worrying for another year? Go visit schools in the Autumn? Sit on dd till she does some Mathletics?!? Help!

Don't most have them have open evenings? All the Comprehensives around here have them at some point.

I wouldn't start panicking just yet

Oh good. I could do with less to panic about

There is only one local Comp, which does have open evenings - am just not sure in which year I should go to one. Its also only just starting to go 'up' from having been dire, so I'm wondering whether I should widen my sights for dd.

All this is really so that I can prepare a bit, and if necessary prepare her a bit - I know when she is in Y5 she will need to go and look at schools herself, and I shall certainly take her views into consideration!

If you're in a super selective grammar area you would start tutoring if you were that way inclined in year 4. If you didn't like the state options and were thinking of private then you would find out what they tested for at 11 and that would be year 4 too.

If you live close enough to a comp you're happy with then I wouldn't pay it any attention at all as long as your dd was happy as well when you eventually look round.

Thanks.

I don't think she'd suit a super-selective (and there aren't any very near anyway). She's bright, but far more interested in arts than academic subject - and would hate anything remotely regimented/pressured!

I suppose the problem is that I'm not happy with the local Secondary, yet...but by Y7 it could be great. Am really hoping, because most of her friends will go there so that would be lovely.

I think I will look into the local Indies, in order to have some options up our sleeve - not too keen on those I know, but there are others I haven't looked at!

Hi Elibean, well I think it depends where you live and what type of schools are near you and how tricky it is to get in.
Here in North London many parents are really on the ball, so would be starting to consider things by the end of year 3, but that is because some of them will be thinking about the grammar schools, so tutoring.
If you think that exams for grammar are around Christmas time in yr 5, most people tutor for about a year or even 18 months, therefore starting either at the start of yr 4 or by the Jan of yr 4 (once the yr 5 lot have taken their exams so tutors start with a new lot).
If that is what you are looking at you would need to look around the schools in year 4 to be sure which ones you were tutoring for.
If you are not going through all that, I would be looking at schools in yr 5, (at the latest) so that you know what your options are, then go again in year 6 before you put your forms in to see if you still feel the same.
But it is really difficult here and people do lots (move, rent, etc) to get the choice they want, so unless you are really lucky and live in the catchment for a school already then you probably would be thinking about it by yr 3, all rather sad really.

part of the reason people think about it early is if you did decide to move catchment for secondary, you need to do it before the application time the year before (keeping things straightforwards), and also if you have other DC you need to consider the effect of such a move on them (which primary they would then be in catchment for or possible travel problems).

i did think about it at birth, then again at 4 (fortunately good primary school nearby) ....the problem is time does fly past and leaving the area gets less appealing with time as we settle in...and whether we would even be able t buy a house in the other catchment in X years time...

Goodness. A lot to take in, then!

I'm in SW London. I don't think there are grammars very near by, the nearest are probably a borough away at the very least. Thank goodness - removes one headachey choice.

We are actually thinking about some tutoring, not in order to get dd in to anywhere in particular, but because a friend's ds is really enjoying some sessions with a local tutor - and it would just give dd some support in her schoolwork generally, plus ease her in to harder work if she did decide to go for a local Indie.

There is absolutely no way we would move - we only moved in (and did lots of building work) 18 months ago! I'm mostly waivering towards keeping fingers crossed that the Secondary improves - I'd love to support it, if its a viable option in time. I just feel, as a responsible parent, I should help dd explore her options. And as an 'in case',

Ok - all very helpful.

Nope, not Church goers

We only have one real local option, then.

Plus Independent schools, of which there are several - all are selective, bar one. I think dd could get in to most of them, with a bit of focused work, but not sure if they'd suit her, or us. I should go look at those, probably, huh.

Some indies would require a bit of tutoring as well, especially in London.

Are you sw London as in Graveney or sw London as in Merton in which case you are well within striking distance of Tiffin and the Sutton schools. Lots of people would be tutoring like mad for them which would be why everyone would start to flap in year 3 as you know.

Nothing is stopping you start to research schools within feasible distance of your home and the earlier you do this, the better. If you fall in love with a school you may find that there are ways you could be "grooming" (not necessarily tutoring) your DC to increase his/her chances of getting in.

SW London as in neither - Barnes.

Well then you may have options just across the river in Hammersmith. So I would look around.
I was asked about secondary schools by parents of my second child's contemporaries when she was in reception, which seemed too early, the beginning of year 6 seems too late for me.

No one is really flapping around me, just starting to worry

And no one is tutoring, apart from dd's BF who is having half an hour of extra maths help per week.

I'll plan to go visit Indies in the Autumn term, I think, after reading all your replies. And keep optimistic eye on the local Secondary (it was very good years and years ago, then sank to unmentionable depths, but I hear whispers of lots of local kids starting to go there again, so there's hope!)

Thank you.

Yes, some options in Hammersmith - I've listed the Free School (though sounds too sporty for dd, and we're not that close as not in North Barnes so not sure she'd qualify), Latymer (several kids going there from her primary). Chiswick??

Year 4 round here if you're aiming for the Grammar school (super selective). Have been pondering back-up schools for DS1 since then. He is currently in Y5, and has just 3 months till he sits the 11+. We are visiting the Grammar on their open day in July, and we will be visiting the local Secondaries in early September.

I already have a DD at Secondary, had to choose carefully for her based on the Special Needs departments, but may end up with DS1 at a different school as he has different needs, and it's the G&T provision I'm looking at for him...

It's a minefield, and you need to find the best school for your DC, which might be different for each of them.

In our area we have two good State secondaries ( early 70's % of kids getting A-C for 5 GCSE subjects including maths and English and 30%+ of them getting A-A*s) plus a smattering of super selectives further away.
DD1( year 5) is academic (top sets for all subjects, on G&T list for a couple), but enjoys arts and music as well, so we are letting her have a crack at one of the nearer Grammar Schools. We started tutoring at the beginning of year 5, but there are others who have had tutoring for much longer. There are only 5 places for our area ( and 100's applying) so we'll see what happens but are pretty relaxed.
DH went to a grammar school so he's keen but I'm happy enough for the kids to go local.

As a foreigner I felt I had to start thinking about it early on, it's taken years for me to understand things like modular GCSEs, double vs. triple science, English Baccaulareate, etc. It's a good thing to monitor early, because although our catchment high school has iffy GCSE results (30-50% pass rates) I notice it still sends up a child or 2 to Oxbridge each year. I'm always collecting anecdotes about other people's experiences: basically every school has its detractors; parents of SN kids are rarely happy anywhere.

Not looking at selective schools so that not an issue. I would be reluctant to tutor just to get into a selective, sounds like too much long-term stress if child doesn't have it easily in them to pass the entry exam.

I wouldn't bother visiting until open days at end of y5/start of y6 because the school can change so much in mean time, anyway; what I saw today wouldn't be the same as what it will be like in 2+ yrs time.

AdventuresWithVoles - I am wary of generally poor schools where one or two children end up at top universities. My experience tends to make me think that parental support is absolutely critical (and massive, including £££) when their DCs make top universities from poor schools.

Its like peering into another world, I feel like Alice!!

I'm sure I'll get used to it all before 2013, but at the moment its a tiny bit - like anticipating the end of babyhood - not to mention daunting. I really dislike all the competitiveness and anxiety, and dd1 is like me in that - she'd react badly to high pressure environments. OTOH, dd2 would happily sail into situations dd1 and I would shudder at - if she makes up her mind to go somewhere, she will!

If you're me you start looking about a year ahead, but no more, and not really in a focussed way. If you're dh, you will expect to be heavily involved but refuse to have anything to do with it until the week the forms are due in. Then, once dd has started at chosen school dh spent most of Y7 complaining about it.

Actually it's a really good school, and she's doing pretty well. She would be doing pretty well at the school that is down the road but which apparently dh was told by the gov helpline not to bother with because the waiting list was far too long and she hadn't a chance..... Turns out that was nonsense, and dh now has no recollection of it.