What does 'Children whose parents are committed for over a year to the life and work of local church' mean?

[reastie]

Looking at prospectuses for local schools, this school is in the village next to ours and will most likely be our top choice. As we don't live in the village itself the only way to be higher in the pecking order of admissions is for us to meet this point (it would get us to admission point 6 of 8 where admission point 1 is the most important, so not exactly securing a place in any case). DH and I have been married in our local church and DD has been baptised there too, and we've donated money to the church when they've needed new heating system etc, but we never go to church.

Does this sentence just mean go regularly to church or does it mean get involved with churchy activities/organise things within the church? If it just means regularly go to church - how regularly is regular?

It also says there must be documented proof that we have been committed to our local church - what form does this take? It's not like there's a register like school to prove we've been at the church

I would take it to mean someone who has been attending church frequently (I don't like to use 'regularly' as someone who attends once a year every Christmas attends regularly ). In my experience once you attend a church frequently you also therefore tend to take part in church life in some way, whether that be doing a reading every now and then, or being on the cleaning/flower rotas. If you attend frequently the vicar will tend to know you and therefore know you attend he happily signs letters for attendees to say they come to church so they use them for evidence for admittance to the church schools.

For our local CoE church secondary school it means the whole family must attend the church every Sunday including children being in Sunday school, with 4 weekends allowed off a year for holidays away - and yes, the vicar absolutely does keep a register. Parents must also take on church duties such as flower arranging, doing the teas/coffees after the Sunday service, doing the Bible readings, teaching Sunday school, being on the PCC. Children, if musical, should be in the choir.

Nimble..i like that!if you going to play the system he makes you contribute. :-)

The admission guide should explain it. One of our local secondary schools defines regular church attendance as 3 weeks out of every 4.

Depends on the school but our local ones takes a Sunday school register and expects child and at least one parent to attend at least 3 out of 4 services.

sabriel admissions guide (I've just checked) saying order of place at the school will be based on the level of commitment to the church via one parent or guardians frequency of attendance to church for this criteria point

From speaking to parents of our local church school, it means having a "title" in the church, as well as attending regularly. Apparently people fight over the job of Treasurer to the toddlers club (i.e. the person who collects 20p each week to cover the tea and biscuits ).

If you can't bear that, what about joining the choir or bell ringers.

reastie Why the face at having to attend a church frequently to get into a church school that you aren't even in catchment for?

Subjective criteria are not allowed. It has to be something measurable, like being baptised and frequency of attendance. Vague terms like "commitment" are meaningless in this content, and also though I suppose they can be in the blurb, they cannot be part of the criteria.

Also additional roles in the church are excluded, as they are indirect discrimination against those who work and don't have time to do the flowers or whatever. But regular attendance is generally considered to be achievable by all.

littlemiss quite right in questioning me on that one. don't mean it to come across as how it did. I just at it as saying the people who are the most involved are more likely to get the place is completely fair and reasonable but DH and I are quite private people and don't really like socialising much with other people and our week ends are quite precious to us to spend time together. Going to church I'm perfectly happy to although DH will be less so it's more the thought of feeling obliged to volunteer for extra things just to look good for school admissions seems a bit immoral. Hope that doesn't come across badly there, don't mean to. I have a moaning toddler attached to my leg crying most of the afternoon so can't always think through properly everything I say

This sounds like one of those admission criteria which really should not be allowed. It is too vague.
Who is agreeing the frequency of attendance or that you are part of the life of the church? You need to look again at the admission criteria and the foot notes to it, to establish how it is being agreed.
If it does not say anything then the admission criteria is not acceptable but you will need to work within it. I would email the school as they are clearly their own admission authority and ask them how the frequency of attendance is worked out, it may well be by signing a book or it might be just how often you can nod to the priest and what they will sign for, both of which are completely unacceptable but at least you will know what you have to do.

You don't need a register, every church has a number of elderly and nosy parishioners who can tell everyone exactly who was there, what they were wearing and how they and their family conducted themselves during the sessions.
Committed means regular attendance, children at the children's activities and some involvement in the social stuff, or the choir, cleaning rotas, charity sessions or whatever.
if you aren't that involved, why go for a church school?

If you want the benefits of sending your child to a selective school in a closed community, you have to meet their criteria.

Church schools often work towards being outstanding on the pastoral side of things, with a community spirit and a lot of involvement from the parents and children in the life of the school.
If you are very private as a family, it might not be an ethos that suits you.

So you don't go to church. don't like the idea of going to church or being a mamber of the church community, but still want a place at the church school

Why, one wonders?

What QueenEdith said.

Admissions criteria these days have to be absolutely explicit. What you have put there is not clearly defined and I'm surprised they are allowed to put that (they probably aren't).

Anyway. With schools like these (in our area anyway) you do the usual form plus a Supplementary Form. Ring the school and ask for one. That will give you an idea of what the questions are and who is to answer them.

Alternatively you could contact the council and ask them.

We are not going to be able to answer your questions - these things vary wildly between areas and even between schools.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions some of you have given and to the less than helpful comments too - it seems parents who may not be wanting to run the PTA and the like arn't allowed to be interested in wanting the best for their children by looking at sending them to a good school which is also one of the closest schools they live to - it takes all sorts of children and families to make a community . I went to a church school and found it a very positive experience and I'd love the same for my DD. I know there will be religious people who disagree with me here so I'm never going to win but personally I don't feel the need to go every week to church to show how religious I am and what my beliefs are - I know alot of people like and enjoy this and feel it important, but to me I have never felt the need to regularly attend church to show my beliefs although I realise if DD is to grow up in a christian environment I should consider school or no school when and how to introduce this to her and maybe it's my issue for not thinking about that sooner and looking at this prospectus is a good thing for us. I realise I'm not explaining this well and opening myself up to insults, which I'm really not looking for, I'm just trying to explain why I don't currently go to church but why I feel I'd like DD to go to a church school.

So you don't go to church. don't like the idea of going to church or being a mamber of the church community, but still want a place at the church school

Why, one wonders?

Why not? Its one of her nearby state schools. The OP is not averse to the church 'but personally I don't feel the need to go every week to church to show how religious I am ' ... its a shame when schools' admissions make Pharisees of parents, isn't it?

there is a register at our sunday school and church play group, they also know the names of everyone who goes to prayer groups, sings in the choir, helps in the shop etc, it's quite measurable

'its a shame when schools' admissions make Pharisees of parents, isn't it?'

Do you know what a pharisee is?

My children are at independent schools, so have never been in this situation.

However, as a churchgoer, I would suggest that being comitted to the life and work of the church means regular worship, as well as participating in a home group, bible study group or other regular term-time group. It may be doing some kind of service support, or children's work. It may be being part of a mission or outreach group, or part of church leadership.

I imagine it is hard for the school to define what they are looking for specifically because we all have different gifts and serve in different ways. I feel strongly tht a Christian will do something extra in their church. If not, do they have a living faith?

I think the school's wording is about right - it covers the range of people who contribute to church life.

You want to send your daughter to a good school. Have you worked out the elements that make this a good school? Like the sense of values, shared purpose, mission statement and commitment to the overall ethos?
Good schools don't just materialise, they are made by the community they serve and the staff that work there.

Yes but it needs to be explicit rather than just "showing commitment".

Schools around here typically ask for attendance every week / every fortnight for at least X years, and that is confirmed by a form signed by the vicar / priest / etc. However there are no registers taken locally (yet).

OP you need to find out from the horses mouth. And that's all there is to it really.

It may be that even if you went every day you wouldn't get in given that the church thing is only point 6 of 8.

It does make Pharisees of parents. More concerned with obeying the rules and outward appearance than with what's going on inside.

I'm deeply religious, and love sending my kids to a church school. But if there had been this sort of rule to get in, I would have gone for a non-faith school. I'd rather have a school where parents can be honest about their beliefs, than one where half the intake have been consistently lying for years just to get their kids in the door.

I suppose what I'm saying is: these sort of rules make the school less religious, not more so, because of all the deceit that goes on over intake.