August children worst performers in education system? Now, really?!

[walkwithme]

Our 3rd daughter is due on the cusp of August/September.

There has been a lot of press about children's entry age into the school system and school performance. (for example www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-154907600

It is claimed that August children (the youngest) do worse in their academic career than September kids (the oldest who are supposedly and kind of obviously more mature, confident, developed, able to concentrate because they are a year older).

But, doesn't it also depend on the general character of the child, birth order, support at home? i.e. August kids who have older siblings for example may be possibly more suitable for young age entry.. just asking ;)

I am having an elective cesarian due to health issues, so I guess I could possibly try and push the date to either August or September.

Please let me know your experience / opinions..

But where do the bloody statistics come from Raisin? They're not grown in a lab, they refer to real people. They can only come from thousands of individual children achieving less than they would have done if they'd been born in September.

It depends entirely on the child. If your child is quite socially and academically advanced, I would have thought being an August birthday would be an advantage - less chance of getting bored by the general pace of things.

My birthday is in late August, I never noticed a difference between myself and my classmates at school. Never struggled, usually in the top quarter of the class (grammar school) . DH, however, born late July, says that he didn't really catch up with his peers until he was 14 or so. I'm not sure what that proves, except that everyone's different.

Walkwithme - my DD was the youngest in the year. She was emotionally immature, wanted not to drop her naps (lots of calls to come and get her) didn't even seem interested in reading until she was nearly 5. Just a bad combo of factors. When we moved abroad, she became in the middle of her grade and is much happier.

Not making the same mistake with DS, who also would be the youngest. He is being allowed, by the education authority, to defer a year. So happy!

Not all children are the same. Everyone knows how futile and painful it would be to force a child to wean or walk before they are ready, so why isn't it the same for education?
(BTW - my DSs daughter is a year younger than my DS and totally in a different league. She was ready for school at age 3! Again, different child, different learning circumstances.)

Although they might be fine I would go for September. My DS was early and born in late August. It has other issues for him aside from academic ones. His birthday is always in the school holidays which means a lot of his friends can't make parties. He is small and finds keeping up physically difficult. He will be the last of his friends to be able to do anything.he will be in Beaver Scouts until the start of year 4 ( and therefore be with Year 1 kids) long after all his mates have moved to Cubs. He will not be able to legally drink at the end of his A levels. he will not be able to learn to drive a car until the upper sixth. Etc etc
My advice. Go for September if you can!

My August 31st born twins, who were also two months premature have obviously ended up in a year higher than what they should be in, in the reception year of school they were a little behind their peers, with a lot of work at home which we made fun they came on in leaps and bounds and by yr 1 were in the top two sets, this continued through the whole of their school career, on friday this week my boys leave school age 15 and one of them is estimated all As and Bs at GCSE and the other Bs and Cs, they have both been offered a place in college and have both done amazing not only this they have also suffered with tourettes, hyperacusis, glue ear and bad asthma so in my opinion August born children still have the potential to do amazingly well with the right support :) Just wanted to point out that my April born child is struggling a lot and is behind her peers so I dont always think it is to do with when they were born some children struggle regardless

My dd is November born and her pal at nursery is August born. Emotional and physically my d's friend is behind, but intellectually she's miles ahead of my dd, and I just know she will do well at school.
I think it all depends on the child. I'm sure there could a fairer way re school entrance times/dates.

My birthday is Aug 28th, my sister Aug 14th. When I arrived at uni I was the youngest student there. Apart from the years I was in Germany, so learning using a second language, I was a very high achiever, except in maths. My sister is ridiculously clever; achieved a crazy amount of As at GCSE level, plus 4 A-Levels and got a 1st from Warwick. She is now doing a second degree through work related to her first degree (she is 24)

So yes, it does make a difference. My sister had a whole two weeks relative seniority over me and look how much more she's achieved

I think with the August/September debate there is an element of self fulfilling prophecy

it's almost expected that children perform worse and parents are told they will catch up where as if they are older the school will action interventions earlier before I am flamed I appreciate that it is a sweeping generalisation but I have seen it happen

my sis was a september baby and I'm an August baby and 6 weeks prem and we both left school with 4 A levels
my DD is October born and could easily have gone to school a year early and would have slotted in fine

If I was making the decision you are making I would judge on your older DCs -were they ready for school at the age they started?
there are advantages to being August born (nursery fees being one of them if you work) but socially being the youngest in the year in high school can cause problems in terms of being the last one to be allowed to do everything, last one to be legal to drink etc etc

DS1 was due in August but born in September. The other children in my nct gorup were all born in August and started school a year before him (last year). Two have 'struggled' and one has 'done well.' DS1 has done 'extremely well' so far.

The actual difference between the children is not that great but DS1 is reading etc at Y1/2 level, and is obviously made to feel that he is a clever boy. A TA atually stopped me in the street to say that to both of us, which I found a bit inappropriate but there you go - anyway, the effect on his self belief is pretty obvious. Whereas the children who are supposedly struggling (and know it, and feel stupid because of it) are probably at reception level and the child who is 'doing well' is probably about the same as my son.

The only difference is that my son is a year below. I find it very sad that his friends are labelled as less able simply because they were born a week or so earlier than him. If and when they level off, my son will still have had all that bolstering and the other children will have had their self esteem knocked. That is one of the reasons August borns do not do so well and it is crappy.

It depends entirely on the DC. DH was the end of August-he had taught himself to read by the time he was 4 yrs and won a full scholarship to an independent school-in the days before you had tutoring. DS is August and was always struggling to catch up-he would have been much better in the year below. He was however very good at physical things and tall for his age.
A friend's DD was 1st Sept and always preferred the DCs in the year above, a bit of a handicap in year 6 when they left.
Last to drive, drink etc is definitely a problem.

Ds is late Sept, and in many ways I can see it will be an advantage, for instance I can't imagine buying school uniform for him this time next year. I do think though being the youngest of three makes a difference, at just over two and a half he is already counting to 20; wanting to learn letters and has just started to swim. I can see that in two years time he will be so fed up with nursery, also most of his friends at the moment are in the year ahead, just because of the way it is with my friends having children. Also I'm worried that he will just gravitate towards those in year ahead in nursery - as he is used to older children and the way they play, and then be disappointed when they all leave.

On balance I would still go for a Sept baby over Aug, but think my girls with their feb birthdays are probably best placed in the English education system.

I am a foreigner and find it hidious to make children read and write at just turned 4! It's not age appropriate, especially for boys.

Reception is a lovely start to school for a 5 year old though, as long as its very play orientated.

DS (spring born) was too young and just not interested in reading and refused to do maths - despite being average.

If DD was 2 months older she would have to start in Sept, the thought alone fills me with horror. She might do OK though as she loves books, is a very good listener, is sometimes interested in letter/reading/counting... but I am so happy that she has another year to explore all that and whatever she wants in her own time/way.

My DS was born in the Autumn and is top table for everything. My DD was born in June. If you compare her to her brother, she is reading at exactly the same ORT stage for her age (6 in 2 weeks time) as her brother was at this this age. Only he had just started yr 1 and so was considered to be a good reader and she is nearly at the end of yr 1 and considered to be just scraping average. His self esteem is much greater than hers and she thinks she is a poor reader. I dislike our education system and its constant assessments and gradings of young kids.

I help with reading in DDs yr 1 class. All the kids know what levels the others are on. And they are not polite about it to each other.

The Provincial - that is the experience I've had. When my DD 'dropped' a grade, in other words slotted downwards from Y2 to Y1 in the country we moved to as their cut off dates for ages are different, she instantly became the best in the class from being the worst in England.

She blossomed instantly and was so happy that she finally didn't feel 'stupid'. (She kept calling herself that - i can only assume someone told her that she was - not the teacher, who was wonderful, but the other children perhaps?)

This effect, two years on, has kept going. I dread to think what she would have felt like if she'd been kept in the same year in England. She might have ridden through it, but she was having to have special help to keep up and even then wasn't keeping up.

If there is statistical evidence that August babies do worse as a group, I think the best thing would be to allow June-Aug babies and Sept-Dec babies to be assessed and allowed to drop down or go up a year as suits their development.

We just need more flexibility to go up or down a year.

My dd is August born-got a 2:1 in Philosophy from a good university
dsd-i-l is August 31st got a first in English from a good uni
dd-i-l is August born and also got a good degree from a top Turkish uni
All three had happy normal school days reasonably high achieving academically throughout though a little behind in games/athletic stuff for fisrt couple of years.however dd rode for the county,dsd-i-l was a ballet dancer and dd-i-l was a competetive swimmer-all 3 in their teens.

I'm a late July child and until I hit puberty and became a lazy fuck who was more interested in pop music than school I was consistently joint top of my year, with another late July girl. I'm a younger sister, she was the older sister. My older sister was oddly in totally the wrong year, she was a November child and would have been by months the youngest in her year, but again, she did OK too. Make of that what you will. To me, the fact that DD, a December child, will be amongst the oldest, is of concern!

Agree with HappyPiglet re th other issues of being the youngest of their friends and last to be able to do stuff.
DD1 (now 14) is August born, should have been November.
Bucks the trend academicaly, mainly struggling with physical maturity in the early years and organisational skills in the juniors. Much better at Maths/Music/Science/Languages than heavily written subjects - a very immature writer till quite recently. 'Free reader' since year 1.
Looks to be heading for A's and B's at GCSE, but is naturally bright as well as starting school at 3.
I think she will be at a huge disadvantage at the end of year 11, as will find it difficult to do much work experience in the summer holidays as won't be 16 for most of it.

DD2 (9) is October born. Streets ahead literacy wise, and scarily mature for her age. Much of this likely to be from having an older sister. Only just above average in maths, so there is a bit if a disparity there. Overall academcally, she appears to be behind where her sister was at the same age, but her education started at nearly 5.
Although there is a noticeable difference between DD2 and her friends that are summer born, my opinion is that much of this is due to the younger ones starting school a term later than her.

I'm an August birthday, as is my Mum, as is my DD.

It didn't affect my Mum or I.

My DS(8) is Oct bday and has always sailed through everything, seemingly effortlessly. He is focused, impatient, competitive and keen to learn and please. He's in the top 3 in the class.
DD (5,Aug) is a different story altogether. She's a dreamer, "creative", couldn't really give a stuff about any of it but is quite into reading. In her class she's middling.

They both know their own minds and will be interesting adults I think.

DD is August born and is doing better than most of her peers. I think the difference for her is as a second child she picked up on stuff my DS was doing. He's October born and though he's nearly 2 years older he's only 1 school year ahead of DD. She learned to read by herself ie we didn't teach her - she listened as DS was learning and now is miles better than her older brother. FWIW I think it does depend on the child, but as a (secondary) teacher of boys I can tell most of the time who is young for the year (before checking data I mean).

Also DNephew is in year 6 but well ready for year 7 - having to wait a year because he's old for his year...
As most people have said - depends on the child...

what exotic said it depends on the child and the system needs to be more flexible, it is in scotland? i have a friend holding her ds back a year.

my ds1 is late aug, there is NO way he was ready for school a week after his 4th bday, so he didnt go, we home educated, ditto ds2 who is july, but they started school full time age 9yrs in yr 5 and 6yrs in yr 2 and they did fine and now in yr 8 (ds1) and yrs 5 (ds2) despite both being the younger in their year they are flying academically and well ahead of where they should be, top of their yr groups etc, infact ds2 is in a mixed yr5/6 class and academically is one of the top childrne, despite being one of the youngest. however he has had a few issues as despite being very bright, he is emotionally and socially 'younger' than the other children inhis class, tho seems to have grown up a lot since xmas and that has sorted itself out.

if i was in a postion to be able to choose a late aug or early sept bday for one of my children i would probably choose sept, its nice to have that extra time iwth them before they go to school for one! they are only little for a short time :)

The greylady, that's great that your children are so successful.
I was nearly the youngest in my year as well, and did incredibly well at school. But having seen it from the other side, when a child isn't ready, it makes me realised that if a child isn't ready, they aren't ready, and much of it is to do with luck. It's no good me telling my baby-ish DS 'well come on then, buck up, I was fine. You should be too.' One size doesn't fit all. It's been very humbling to see the other side.

That is why there should be more flexibility, as exotic fruits said.

Here's a link to a PDF of a statistical review of 19 years of reports on the 'birth date effect' from Cambridge Assessment's Research Division.

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In the UK, where the school year starts on September 1st, the disadvantage is greatest for children born during the summer months (June, July, August).
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The effect of being the youngest in the year group holds in other countries where the school year begins at other times in the calendar year. This evidence rules out medical / seasonality hypotheses regarding pre-natal exposure to viral infections during the winter months for Summer-born children.
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The birthdate effect is most pronounced during infant and primary school but the magnitude of the effect gradually and continually decreases through Key Stage (KS) 3, 4, and A level.