School Appeals!

[glitterHarriet]

Hi all, I am new to this forum but have just been been reading through the lengthy school appeals info on here and decided to start a new thread with my questions (sorry but the other one had about 300 messages!).

I will be appealing my daughters primary school place on June 14th and was after any advice really! On april 20th she was given a school place which wasnt one of the three we put down. We have just moved house this month into the catchment area of our school that was number one on our list (150 yards away!) and the school we were given was in our old area (2880 yards away). We did state when applying for schools that we were looking to move in our chosen schools catchment area, and trust me we were looking hard and we did get a bit held up as I was made redundant at the end of last year, but once I had a new job it was back to operation move house asap.

We are now number one on the schools waiting list in our new area, but I was really looking for some info on infant class size appeals which this will be. I know they are tricky to win, but I really dont know what to expect and what our chances are. We did tell them we were moving, but I know a lot of people do this and dont - we did. I cant stop thinking and basically dreading the decision and there have been a lot of tears on my side as it just worries me so much. I have basically decided to keep my daughter at her preschool (attached to the school I want her to go too) until at least January if we dont win, this I really dont want and is a last option - but I cant get her to the school she was given everyday, cant afford the travel and its not suitable with my working hours (I can get to my local school easily from my work and my mum helps pick her up and she lives just up the road from me). Sorry to go on, just really something on my mind and I just need all the info I can get right now!

Many thanks, H.

If you moved in the last month, then that would be after the date for allocations. Unless you are an Armed Forces family (where there are specific exemptions in place), you can only apply from the address where you are living at the time. Intentions to move cannot be considered.

You say it's an ICS appeal. That means there are only three grounds:

a) they made a mistake processing your application: they should have told you why you were rejected from your original choice of schools. Were you placed in the correct admissions category? What was the last distance offered for this category? Have the measured the distance from your address as on the application correctly?

b) the entrance criteria break the Admissions Code, and your child would have secured a place had lawful criteria been used.

c) the decision is so unreasonable as to be perverse (the bar is very high for this; it's not a case of balance of prejudice, nor would intention to move count, sorry),

The distance you are now will count for assessing your place on the waiting list, but isn't relevant to the handling of your initial application. As you are number one, there is a good chance you may be admitted from the waiting list, unless others also move into the area and closer to the school.

Is the currently allocated school 2880 yards from your current address or the old one?

Hi its 2880 yards from my new address, and basically would be a nightmare to do it, totally un-doable basically!

I hope we stay at number 1 as its kinda hard to be closer (just 1 house between us and the playground!)

Thanks, I will ask to get added to other local schools waiting lists. The nearest spaces too me are at a school I would never ever consider sending her too, really just not an option....mainly reasons for that, and as I went to the high school in the area I know what the area is like.

There are 30 in the reception, the guy at admissions said too me today he hopes a space to come up before Sept, but I know the chances arent that high. As for after Sept, shes only 4 in July so I know I have time on my hands a bit as technically she dosent have to start till after shes 5. Ideally I dont want that, I want her to start with her friends in Sept.

I have just emailed the admissions guy I was talking with today and asked to be added to three other schools around here waiting lists. (even if she got one of them, i would stay at my local schools waiting list for the time being).

Thanks tho, its good to get a better idea of it, my emotions are so up and down right now and I just want this appeal out of the way!

Also, we are sending in our tenancy agreement as proof of address that we moved - what else (or indeed if anything else) do you think we should send in for our case?

One more thing!! reading through all the appeal we were sent today in regards to the school we want. there is a section that says what is the situation at primary school. PAN number is 30, school capacity is 166 (the numbers have gone up higher in each class this year so over years that number will gradually rise to 210) and IAN number is 23. What is an IAN number?!! It says Indicated Admission Number but what does that mean? ta!

This I presume is a school that is moving from being a small school to a one form entry primary school. The school capacity is a calculation of the space available for pupils to be taught in and as they talk about moving from 166 to 210 they must be slowly increasing the number of teaching rooms that are available.
The IAN is the school capacity divided by 7, so 166 divided by 7 = 23 to the nearest whole number. This will rise to 30 as the school gets 7 classrooms. To be honest it is not really relevant, the only thing that is relevant is whether there are 30 in reception and therefore it will be an infant class size regs case.
What I am not quite clear about is what numbers they have in each year group. Is it that come september they will have 5 classes of 30 from reception through to year 4 and each year they will keep adding in an extra year until they get to all years from reception through to year 6.

I understand how you have shed tears over this. My daughter who is starting school in august was refused a place at my local school which my son attends due to the high number of placing requests this year. I was told 4 weeks ago that we were no 1 on the list and have spent the last month in turmoil worrying about the appeal which is due next week. However someone who had enrolled their child in the school has pulled out and we now have our place so dont lose hope. I really hope it works out for you. x

Thank you frantic :) Glad it worked out for you! Fingers crossed for me too! Just added DD to a nearby-ish schools waiting list (one I would be happy for her to attend) and shes number 14 on that list, the whole thing becoming a very annoying unfunny joke now! Ive had less panics / tears about it over the last couple of days as I realise another year at preschool and some home schooling looking increasingly likely.

Admissions - the school has increased each year group by 5 spaces from Sept this year. Good new for my nephew who will be moving into the area soon and starting year 6, not so good news for us I guess. Last year the reception intake was 25, but infact they took 27 (2 appeals?). Then previous years the intake was 20, however in what will be year 2 this sept (and therefore reception two years ago so 20 kids) they also have 27. Unsure how they got the extra 7, but hey I guess thats nothing to do with us! The other years have 18 kids.

Just unsure what kind of thing we need to say to the appeal? Its two weeks tomorrow (eeekkk!) and I am DREADING it! Do you think we will get the decision straight away for to left to worry about it all weekend?!

I also read in our documents about appeals that if you fail an appeal the only way you can re-appeal is if you move house, considering we have already done the moving and are appealing for the school in the area we told them we were moving into how does this work out?!

Its just doing my head in that by wanting the best for your child you have to go through all this, we also moved because I found it hard were we lived before with all the travelling into town for work etc, so we planned to move to coincide my job and also my daughter school and my husband works near out new house too. If they except us to travel out there everyday I just dont get it, and also cant afford to the £100 a month to do so! (another reason we moved to save ££) I guess as its my first child this whole school thing is just new too me!

Also sorry I dont mean to go on so much! :)

It sounds a very strange situation where they are increasing the number in each class each year. The question I would be asking is why this phased increase in numbers if as seems to be the case from your posts that the classrooms are there. If they are going to 30 next year from 25 then I can only conclude that the classrooms are of the right size to accommodate 30.
However the bottom line is that this will be an infant class size regs case (because there are 30 in the class) and therefore as queen edith says there are very limited circumstances where you can win at appeal. If you do not believe a mistake has been made then the only real case that you can mount is that the school is so close to your house and that the LA were aware of the address but chose to allocate based on the old address. I think they have done exactly what they should have done but that is the only way that you can mount an appeal.
Normally most appeals you do not find out straight away. In most cases they say that they write to you within 5 school days, they tend not to do anything verbally after a couple of cases went to court over being told that they had been successful when they had not been successful at appeal.
You are allowed one appeal per academic year unless there has been a material change in circumstances. In effect that is what this appeal is about, your change in circumstance in moving. As such you will not be able to appeal again till september 2013, unless something else happens in the interim.
I suspect that your best bet for a place is still that you number one on the waiting list.

Thanks, its helpful to learn all of this!

We also slightly shot ourselves in the foot in early May as well over this, as when we got the letter confirming our allocated school it had all the info in it for appeals. we knew our new address and appealed straight in, my husband had told admissions and they told us to appeal (never asked for new address). Howver, it turns out on May 8th there were second round offers, 3 people had turned down places so 3 new people got offers. Not us :( Our stupidly I guess, but having never dealt with the schools thing we thought we had done everything we should have done by appealing and sending in that form asap. admissions guy told me last week when I found this out they arent connected to appeals office, fair enough but when I emailed appeals lady some stuff last friday she emailed me back and said she was forwarding to admissions :( grrrr!!!!! I honestly am mad about that and am blaming myself for my daughter for not getting one of those 3 places because really how common is it for places out of 30 people to come out?! admissions told me they are hopeful she would get a place before sept, but Im not as sure.

I hope that makes sense, basically we thought we had done everything we needed to by appealing.

Im just gonna go to this appeal and give it what we have, am researching what we can, I know its unlikely we will win - but we have a chance to try and do something, so hey we may as well take that chance!

Also, are second round offers a common knowledge thing? Never heard if them until I got told this stuff about them :(

Hi, I told admissions after May 8th, I assumed that once I had contacted appeals the info then we were covered, but again thats because this is new too me and I did that we were told too. My husband did briefly speak to a guy at admissions (around April 23rd) but he just told us to appeal and never asked for the info, so why would we think any different. Yeh, it states on our paperwork that 3 people relinquished their places so they were offered I guess to the top 3 on the waiting list. I just feel obv that now she is number 1, we missed out on a place there.

Anyway she is now on 4 local waiting lists, and I have enrolled her for another term at preschool, this worries me slightly as all her friends will be starting school in Sept and she will see her friends at preschool in the receptiion class - but we are doing what we think is right, and over summer I guess we better make more cement plans for January onwards! What I do know is that we moved out of old area for a reason, and we are not in a position to drop her off and pick her out everyday.

I cant wait for all of this to be sorted out!!

Also, the info we are preparing of what we will say, do we need to send to them beforehand? We have the time for the first meeting and a time for second meeting in the afternoon not given yet but we can ask closer to the time. The first meeting is with the other parents appealing (I find that rather awkward!!) so I guess we dont get to say our points then and more so they speak too us?

Sorry for all the questions! I wanna be as clued up as poss and dont know anyone who knows anything about these or has been through one before!

We're appealing too but the guy at admissions tried to put us off saying we will never win! However we are trying the unreasonable route as ours is a Child protection issue. Our sw will attend with us and we have submitted heaps of evidence. If we don't win at least we can say we tried. We're also 1st on the list but keep moving to 2nd then back to first die to late sibling applications x

Mossity, I would actually bring that up at the appeal if you know who it was because that is very naughty and should not happen. The LA is allowed to state the facts about the level of success of Infant Class Size Cases but not tell people that they will not win.

What grounds are you appealing on exactly?.

Kilmuir are u asking me? My dd is adopted and birth family go to allocated school which was originally our first choice. We found this out 6 weeks before allocations but admissions said it was too late to do anything. We have accepted another school but since meeting the head teacher who is a homophobe... Three is no way dd can go there! Admission he told me there really is no point in going to the appeal and basically they only hold them because they have too!

I wish you well Mossity. how frustrating