Mathematical concepts at which ages?

[Kaida]

Can anyone tell me when (age or school year) the NC expects children to grasp various mathematical stuff? E.g. percentages, ratios, decimals, prime numbers etc. Is there a link I can go to to find this listed somewhere simply?

TIA.

www.niched.org/docs/the%20primary%20framework.pdf

page 70 onwards for maths

We don't teach decimals until year 4. Percentages and ratios are year 5 afaik.

when do you teach negative numbers and subtracting back past 0 or subtractiing a positive number from a negative number?

No decimals till Y4? Isn't that a bit late? My DS2 in Y3 has done decimals, in the first term of Y3. My DS1 in Y5 is currently doing homework on Euler's theorem. Both in top set for their year, state Community Primary school.

They do percentages and ratios in Y3 here, I know DS2 has done percentages and ratios as he had to go through a pack of multi coloured straws for homework and work out the ratios if each colour...

And they did negative numbers at the end of Y1 / start of Y2.

Thank you all, especially Snowball - that's a very useful link.

Oh god. My DS is a maths wizz. Can you believe it, he is 5 and asked me the other day 'what's the biggest negative number Mummy' He is 5 years old. He keeps on asking me about percentages and what they mean (like 50% less salt on packaging and things like that). I'm gonna have a job on my hands.....

DS1 is still on 3d shapes, symetry, and reading time on analog clocks at end of year 1, and I honestly doesn't think his class is anywhere near ready to do negative numbers.

I can't write today, still too early Sorry about grammar mistakes in my post!

Well, none of the basic concepts are that difficult to understand at a very basic level. It's what you actually do with them that is interesting - and I doubt year 1 children do anything interesting with negative numbers! And most children who have a reasonable understanding of money have some unwitting understanding of decimals. Also, there's more than one way to understand something, and 7 years of primary school to get to grips with it, so it's not just a question of when a child is introduced to something, but in what way and in what depth...

Reading negative numbers are a level 3 target, and finding the difference between two negative numbers is a level 4 target. Mostly, negative numbers are taught in year 4 but we touch upon it (in terms of temperature) in year 3.

We don't do percentages at all, nor ratio. In year 3, we introduce the idea of fractions with different values as the numerator (ie 3/5) and recap equivalent fractions, but very few children would know 3/5 is the same as 6/10, and only with visual demonstrations. We might talk about fractions our of 100, which leads to percentages, but not using the % sign.

We don't do decimals at all. We talk about halving numbers like 5 as being 2 1/2, but not 2.5.

Is my DC's school unusual in the way they teach Maths then? 8yo DS2 does understand equivalent fractions, he had to show me how to work them out as I've always been crap at fractions!

He can multiply fractions together too, as can the rest of his Maths set. He can add and subtract negative numbers, but I'm not using this as a stealth boast, his whole Maths set can (some better than others, with more complex sums, DS2 is roughly in the middle of top Maths set, not the top of top set).

What I was saying this for was because I assumed all DC were taught the same things at roughly the same time, or at least in the same yr group.

They are ALL expected to know ALL their times tables off by heart, up to 12x, by the end of Y2.

I should add, my older DD who went through this school really struggled with Maths. She has Learning Difficulties, particularly with Maths, and due to the sheer pace of learning here, she was left behind, and left Y6 not even fully understanding her number bonds to 10.

(Her Secondary took her back to basics, and she's caught up with bottom set now, near the end of Y9).

My 10yo's Maths set is being taught Euler's theorem, and this weekends homework was on Pythagoras' theorem. Which I'm SURE I didn't learn until Y8/9 in Secondary, but I was in bottom set.

Do you mean V+F=E+2?
Ie. How the number of faces and vertices relate to number of edges?

I think so - my friend helps him with his Maths. It's a sorry day when you have to admit that your 10yo DS's abilities in Maths outstrips your own. I said I was crap at Maths!

He has to work out the length of the missing side on a triangle using some formula for his homework this week. .

It sounds as though his maths teacher at school is very good: making the lessons interesting for those children good at maths.

I could be corrected, but I think Pythagaros is part of the curriculum but Euler isn't.

Obviously spelling is not my strong point: Pythagoras.

The Euler thing is from the after school Maths club I have found out from DS1, but the triangle thing is what the top set are doing in lessons.

Dd would love a club like that. :)

I would like to think I am a good maths teacher too, but I can only stretch my class as far as they are able to go. They are only year 3- I don't want to wreck them! My very top few have good understanding of number and can cope with negatives. They might be able to handle ratios and decimals, but TBH there are far more important things to learn right now. That stuff will come in time- it is my job to ensure they are confident in level 3 stuff, rather than pushing for aspects of level 4 and leaving gaps.

Using APP (which we do), ratios, percentages, fractions, equivalences, negatives and decimals all come under M2. Things like Pythagoras' theorem are M1, which involves a different set of skills. In APP terms, the two things are not related.

Juniper What would you do if you had one child who was ahead of the rest and could be stretched much further? In a class of over 30 I can see the difficulty of having to cater for an individual and would genuinely like some advice on how to approach this with who I consider to be excellent teachers. (But daughter Y4 is really not learning anything in maths).

Richmal I teach to my class' ability. This year's year 3 are a very high cohort so I do have some level 4 (just) children. Quite unusual for year 3. I adapt my lessons to ensure they're all being challenged. No-one in my class is exceptionally far ahead and so I don't have to provide individual lessons, but that would be the case for a very talented mathematician. Most schools would put the child into a different year group for the lesson, but some would teach the one pupil alongside the class but individually. It's poor teaching to let a child coast. I spent the first three years of secondary school bored out of my brain because I wasn't challenged, and I lost all motivation for school.

Juniper Thanks for your reply. I think I'll go and have a chat with school.