Difference between a level 3 in ks1 and a level 3 in ks2

[simpson]

Hi

I went to a meeting today at DS's school re explaining the NCLevels etc etc which was done by the HT. Also they are changing the way the do the school reports at the end of the school year so it was to explain that too.

She gave us loads of stuff to read at home re helping our kids etc which is all fine but the only thing that confuses me is the bit that says "There is a difference between levels in different key stages ; for example a level 3 in KS2 is not quite the same as a level 3 in KS1" But then does not explain what the differences are and I read it at home so too late to ask her.

I thought a level 3 was a level 3 ((ignorant)) iyswim.

DS is in yr2 btw.

That's rubbish.
The same assessment criteria for L3 applies in Y2 and Y3.

Yep a level 3 is a level 3 is a level 3!

According to the government and national curriculum they are the same....and they are the same as a level 3 at KS3.

The difference between a L3 at KS1 and a L3 at KS2 is massive.

The child who gets a L3 at KS1 is a high attainer who will (given the right teaching) continue to do extremely well in their school career.

A child who achieves a L3 at KS2 has taken 4 years longer to achieve what is supposedly the same level. Think about it...

I saw the criteria for a L3 a few years ago. I don't know if it has changed in any way (I doubt it) but not one of the pupils who comes to us in Y7 with a L3 at the end of KS2 is capable of anything approaching the requirements for L3 detailed in that criteria. I don't know how they get the levels they do

I think it is referring gaining a level 3 in y2 as different as being level 3 in ks2 as the whole curriculum should be delivered at level 3 in ks2. There is something on here about it and it explains why you may feel a dc hadn't improved from y2 to end of y3. Apparentely it is the same from y6 to y7. Maybe a better qualified person could explain it properly

The criteria for level 3 is exactly the same regardless of the Key Stage, however there is a difference between a child scraping a low level 3 in Y2 and a child achieving a high level 3 with aspects of level 4 in KS2.

IME (trainee teacher) although the criteria are the same throughout the way that 2 schools (and even toba certain extent teachers within a school) approach the assessment of NC levels - the way they collect the evidence, they interpretation of a piece of work against the criteria and the way they distinguish between one level and another can differ wildly.

Which is why Y2 work is externally moderated and other work is internally moderated at least (some schools work together to ensure standards/expectations match).

At 'my' school (where I am a KS2 teacher and also a parent) I would say that one of the eternal frustrations is that a L3 in Y2 often doesn't translate to a L3 in Y3.
There are all sorts of possible reasons as to how this may happen e.g. long summer break means that the child who was a L3 after intensive teaching during the Spring and Summer terms hasn't been able to sustain those skills without daily input.

However, my current feeling on the difference is that a Y2 child may be assessed as being a L3 in writing based solely on his/her traditional tale and riddle (or whatever 2 genres the school is doing for the KS1 NC tests) whereas in Y3, using APP, a teacher would expect the child to display L3 skills across a wider range of genres, often more independently and over a sustained period of time. If a L3 riddle-writer is asked to write a recount/explanation/persuasive letter in Sept of Y3 there's every chance that s/he will produce a piece of work that isn't a L3 because they haven't had the same experience of/exposure to the features of a recount/explanation/persuasive letter.

Except that the Y2 teacher has to produce a range of work, including writing in other curriculum subjects, science experiments , history reports, geography explanations.... to support the level awarded during external moderation.

Spelling accounts for a higher proportion of the overall marks in ks1 than it does on ks2. Therefore it's easier for a good speller to attain l3 in y2 than it is in y4.this is based on the qca tests and not teacher assessment though.

But levels awarded aren't based on QCA tests. There are a possible 7 marks in the Y2 test for spelling if a child spells all 20 words correctly

But don't a lot of schools only award a 3 at KS1 if it is a solid 3 ie. 3B??

I would personally say that my year 6 DD and year 3 DD are not a million miles away from each other in maths, yay to the younger, to the older.

In DS's school a level 3 is broken down to the C, B, A but in Science and Speaking & listening it is just reported as a level 3 with no breakdown.

I would assume this means they then have to be a secure 3 in these 2 subjects??

So it's not unusual to go backwards?

mariasalome How do you mean?

Children tend to go backwards a bit over the summer break.

There is a degree of interpretation in the criteria too. When moving between teachers especially at key stage boundaries, the new teacher may reassess and mark the same skills more harshly - especially when moving to secondary where IME teachers are using a more 'specialist' (for want of a better word) interpretation of a subject like science. In this case a child may produce the same standard of work but get a different 'grade'. In this case the child hasn't actually gone backwards in practice, they have just not satisfied the new teacher that they have met the requirements, because the new teacher has a more demanding interpretation of the criteria.

It is also fair to say that the 'old' teacher will have a broader view of a child's range of skills which they cab factor into their teacher assessment. It takes the new teacher time to acquire this meaning they can only be assessed on the tasks set.

Finally - to address the obvious cynisism...is it in the interest of a new teacher to 'mark them down' to make it easier for new teacher to show evidence of progression? No it isn't. Pupil targets are usually set by the performance at the end of the previous key stage, not the new teachers incoming assessment - or at least that is my experience at ks3.