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DD and maths year 2 SATS

13 replies

threeddsandnolife · 20/05/2012 21:04

DD2 was given a target of 3c for the end year 2. She is good at maths and this was a lot lower than I think she is capable of. Her teacher said that she did not get 100% right at level 2 when we had parents evening in February. I think this was because she found that level very easy and was rushed the questions. I have talked to her about not doing this and it seems better now.

She enjoys maths and so I gave her two level 3 SATs test a few weeks apart to see how she did. In the second one she got 26/30.

If she can get nearly all of a level 3 paper right, how can she be a 3c? I am aware that it is more to do with the teacher view than the tests so I can see that there might be a lower level given by the teacher but not that much different. What is happening do you think?

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DeWe · 20/05/2012 21:45

At KS1 they don't give letters for level 3. You can get scored 3, 2a, 2b, 2c.

Also it is possible that if you have given her level 3 papers and the school has given level 3 papers, that she had already done the paper you gave.

threeddsandnolife · 20/05/2012 21:52

She has not done any level 3 papers yet at school.
Also I have looked at the level 3 targets or criteria and she can do almost all of it very easily. She is very good at maths and school seems to think she is good but have not picked up on how capable she is. The work they do in class does not seem to match what I know she can do.

The teacher gave a target with a letter not only level 3.

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cece · 20/05/2012 21:54

A level 3 is a level 3 in Year 2. It is not reported as a sublevel.

I think my DS1 is working at a level 4 in some areas but his teacher pointed out he is a level 3b in some aspects of his work. Year 3. Why would I not believe her? She sees how he works day to day.

threeddsandnolife · 20/05/2012 21:56

Maybe my dd is distracted in school or something like that so does better at home.

Should I mention it to the teacher?

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letseatgrandma · 20/05/2012 21:56

Are you suggesting that she did the level 2 paper at school and the teacher has said she was still a level 2 based on that or are you saying she is being assessed as a L3?

Whether she's a 3c or a 3a-it won't be reported anyway. Like the KS2 tests, no sublevels are stated.

threeddsandnolife · 20/05/2012 22:13

Will I be told if she gets a 3c or higher? There is a big difference between a 3c and a 3a isn't there? Equivalent to a year.

I think she is being assessed on the L3 paper when they do them (soon?) but the teacher told me at parents evening that the target she had for her was 3c and she seemed to doubt that she would be much higher because she had not got all the 2a questions right.

My view is that the L2 questions were very easy for her and she rushed a few. Of course she needed to learn not to do that which I understand.

Thinking on, my question is that if a dc can score get nearly everything correct on a L3 maths paper is it still possible that they can only be a 3c. I believe she is always working at this level and it was not a lucky day. I am not a teacher though and do understand that she knows more about these things.

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riversmum · 20/05/2012 22:20

Ahh, I can help you understand this. I am a teacher in a year 2 class, plus a parent of a year 2 child!

Basically, when a child does the 'formal' SATs paper for level 2, the number of questions correct will indicate whether they have achieved a 2a, 2b or 2c. You can get around 8 questions incorrect and still be a 2a, though it depends which SATs paper was done as the marking scheme varies. Schools can choose from 2 different papers at the moment. If a child achieves a level 2a, it is usual for them to then sit the level 3 paper. There is a pretty low mark, maybe about 12, for the child to achieve a level 3. It is not divided into a,b and c. It is simply a level 3. However, teacher assessments are different, and your child can be teacher assessed at 3c, 3b and 3a. Actually, you could assess your children, and SHOULD if necessary, into the level 4's. It would be unusual for a child to get 100%, i would be amazed. There is always an area of discomfort, or a misunderstanding (ie, the question says tick the cylinders and the child ticks one and turns over, without realising there were two to tick!) so I would never expect that. I think I have had one or two children do this. My own son is excellent at maths, he only got one question incorrect on the practice paper we did in class. However, on level 3 I encourage the children to attempt about 20 of the 30 approx questions. I know that several of the questions are beyon what has been taught in class, so just leads to demoralised feelings so I instruct which questions to attempt and they tell them they can have a try at the others after. I would expect about 10 children to have a try at the level 3, and typically 8 of them will achieve. However, teacher assessment may over-ride SATS anyway. If a child performs poorly, showing a level 2c for example, but I believed through assessments she was at 3c, I would sumbit her level as a 2a. Or if a child had a flukey go at a test and got level 2a, but typically worked at level 2c, I would submit 2b. Over asssessing is just not fair. It puts presure on child.

You dont say what subject the 3c was in relation to? Diff levels for reading, writing and numeracy apply, no child would be consistently same (well, its unusual) and its expected a progress of 2 sub levels per year (so i assume your daughter started year 2 at a level 2b, so 2 sub levels take her to 3c). However, her previous teacher may have over assessed her, so now she is struggling to show that progression. This is common!

You dont say what SATS papers you give her, but the current 2 in use are very different to the purchasable materials that call themselves 'practice papers' eg Letts and so forth. The best you can use are past papers/ We currently use 2007/2009 i think, but you can get 2001/2003 papers which are quite good. However, I would strongly avoid any home practice, school will take care of that! It is not a big deal and she really shouldnt feel any pressure. Thing is, a 2b is expected and if your child is a 2a, you should be delighted she is doing so well.

The reason the level 3 paper cannot gie her a higher score is the content of the questions- there is a huge leap between level 3 and level 4. In order to be a secure 3, you would need to demonstrate some level 4 skills, which wouldnt actually be expected until year 6. (level 4 i mean) so a difficult one. It isnt necessary and doesnt gain anything for the child. It is pretty much irrelevent. It is for the government to identify vulnerable groups, and poor teachers/schools, rather than use the info to teach the individual children if you see what i mean? When your daughter starts secondary school they probably wont even look at her levels! They will give her CATS tests which are completely different!

Year 6 SATS can be seen as more of a big deal, but again they dont really mean anything to the inidividual children. No doubt will be all techer based assessments by the time your child is 11!

Dont stress or worry as your little girl will start to think she 'must' do well and things. bless her. I hate SATS andstrongly believe they should be replaced with ongoing assessment as they have in Wales.But i hope i helped clarify anyway!

cece · 20/05/2012 22:22

TBH though no one will ask her what she got in her Year 2 SATs when she is an adult will they? Does it matter? A level 3 will be treated as such by her next teacher. I don't know whether she can get a level 3 if she doesn't do well in the level 2 paper. I do know they cannot be given a level 6 if they don't get a level 5 in Year 6.

letseatgrandma · 20/05/2012 22:25

Schools can choose from 2 different papers at the moment. If a child achieves a level 2a, it is usual for them to then sit the level 3 paper.

We were told by the LEA to only give them one paper to do-either a L2 or a L3.

If a child performs poorly, showing a level 2c for example, but I believed through assessments she was at 3c, I would sumbit her level as a 2a. Or if a child had a flukey go at a test and got level 2a, but typically worked at level 2c, I would submit 2b. Over asssessing is just not fair. It puts presure on child.

I would award the level they were consistenly working at in class rather than the test result. It is such a small piece of our evidence.

threeddsandnolife · 20/05/2012 22:33

Thank you, especially River for your long reply. Everything I mentioned her is maths so not other subjects.

She will be ok with the level 2 now I am sure as she had this phase of making mistakes but has stopped now. I am sure she will get a L3 as she is very secure as far as I see with almost everything in that level. She would not get a L4. I would not expect that at all as there does appear to be a step up in the subject.

She will not be doing any more tests or practice at home. Little children should be playing after school. The only reason I did it was I did want to know if my feeling that she was much higher level than 2a or 3c could be right that is why I gave her the two tests.

The reason why I care is that she does not seem to get work at a level to challenge her or teach her new maths and is getting bored sometimes. I ask her what they did and she mostly tells me things that she could do a long time ago. I hope that if she gets a higher level 3 next year's teacher will realise.

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flexybex · 20/05/2012 22:37

Riversmum:

'Schools can choose from 2 different papers at the moment. If a child achieves a level 2a, it is usual for them to then sit the level 3 paper. '

You obviously haven't read the 2012 guidelines then. You only have to give the children one paper.

'We currently use 2007/2009 i think,'

Errr... you think????

'its expected a progress of 2 sub levels per year'

I think you'll find it's 3 sublevels in most Y2 classes.

'However, I would strongly avoid any home practice, school will take care of that!'

Why would anyone be practising SATs papers?

'In order to be a secure 3, you would need to demonstrate some level 4 skills'

No, you'd be demonstrating level 3 skills, and should be taught these if your teacher is differentiating properly.

'It is for the government to identify vulnerable groups'

No, the HT identifies vulnerable groups in the school.

' I hate SATS andstrongly believe they should be replaced with ongoing assessment as they have in Wales. '

Errrr.... they have been replaced by teachers' assessments. SATs test results INFORM our assessments - they're not reported.

Are you sure you teach Y2 riversmum?

kim147 · 20/05/2012 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

threeddsandnolife · 20/05/2012 23:00

If she does not do things as well at school as she does at home it explains why the teacher under estimates her but it does not change that she is not learning much in maths. What can I do about this?

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