Super sized schools

[Doire44]

My Dcs school is currently in consultation about going from a 2 form to 3 form entry school. Two other neighbouring schools have also expanded recently. I started to looking into the topic of shortage of places in schools and found this article which shocked me:
www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/apr/23/titan-schools-primary-largest-school-population

And then I discovered that there is a primary school in Birmingham with six form entry! Do schools have a specific policy regarding outdoor space per child, because it seems to be sacrificing playground space for new classrooms and then the pupils seem to spend most of the school day walking to and from the local playing field. Also there is a school about 3 miles away that is a small one form entry school that may be turned into an academy. Wouldn't it be better for the council to encourage pupils to go to the schools where there are places?

I hope I don't sound NIMBYist, but I am curious because it all sounds as though there should be another way to solve the problem than adding on to schools which are already cramped.

The only reason councils expand schools is when there aren't any places anywhere. They're certainly not going to spend money if they don't have to.

The alternative to expanding existing schools is to build new ones - which obv would cost the council more if they could find some land to build on.

Why do you think the one form entry school has places?

The school we have managed to get our son a place at will be a three form entry. It's large but there is an awful lot of space - communal areas, playgrounds, playing fields etc. so not too bad.

A school that a friend works at in West London will have a 5 form entry in September. That's bigger than my secondary school was (in the same borough) twenty years ago. This primary is to become an academy in 2013.

The problem for me is that this problem has been known about for a good few years, is with us now and is going to be with us for the foreseeable future, the birth rate is still going up year on year.
I fully appreciate the difficulties of predicting where the extra pupils are going to be, but the answer is not bunging extra classrooms on an arbitrary basis at schools where the numbers do not add up in any one cohort year. The answer is logical sensible expansion of primary schools by a form of 30 all the way through the school, so that the spaces are there both now and in the future when required, along with the necessary extras of larger hall, staff room, office etc. That is on average a £3M investment per single form entry increase at an existing primary.
The other answer is the need to invest in new schools but then there is a problem, all new schools have to be academies, so are not LA controlled and as such investment in new schools is not necessarily where the investment needs to be geographically it is where the people running the new school think is a good spot. Interestingly the majority of the free school investment is actually at secondary level to date, which is a bit silly just at the time there is nationally there is a dip in demand for places, whereas primary school places are at a premium..

Our village school admits 8 children per year, but has been stretched to 10 recently. There are three classes and a big field. I just can't get my head round how a four-year old would cope in an intake of 120 or 150 kids. I find it hard to imagine an intake of 60 tbh.

DD is in a four form entry, and although was a shrinking violet when she started she absolutely thrives. It depends upon how it is done, her school runs loads of clubs has a great relationship with most of the parents and is generally really rather fabulous. However I can see that schools this size would need to be managed very carefully to ensure that pupils still get a good education.

No matter how big the school, each class still only has 30 kids in it......

We are 4 form entry, and two of our neighbouring schools are 6 form entry. The biggest issue for us is outside space as we have no green space and only a small playground (plus the local park is currently shut and most of our children live in flats). I don't mind the school size, but I have a huge issue with the children being deprived of green space, I just don't think it is very healthy.

BTW other than that I don't see too many other negative impacts for the children being in such a large school.

One of the biggest problems is creating the extra places in the areas that actually need it. In the London borough where I live, they actually have enough places when you look at the borough as a whole, however in one part of the borough they have a massive shortage.

One option is to bus 4 year olds miles away to the other end of the borough. The other is to expand the schools in the area that needs the places.

I know which option I think is preferable for families.

the WORST school for overcrowded outside space that DH has ever been to was an expensive prep in West London
several kids were injured by crashing into each other EVERY lunchtime.

DS went from a 2 form entry infants to a 4 form entry juniors. I was worried it would be too big and he'd get lost, but he considers the "bigness" of the school to be the best bit about it - more children to be friends with (even with 60 in his year, he seemed not to gel with too many others, this year he's really found his niche), more space, more opportunities.

Thanks for your replies. My main concern was lack of space in the playground and communal spaces. Small Children need space to move around and as hockey said some children may live in flats or might not be able to let off steam elsewhere. The school in the article seems to be very well run so I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. Mind you a 2 hour lunch period must take its toll.

The headlines seem to concentrate on secondary schools, so I was completely unaware of this problem until we got the letter from school. I would have been less surprised otherwise I think.

I also read that a school here in Birmingham is being reopened after closing in the 80s due to falling numbers. it would be good if there were more like these, a ready made school.