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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

I should just drop this, shouldn't I? Given brush-off by teacher.

79 replies

AnnieLobeseder · 16/05/2012 15:58

Apologies in advance for drip-feeding this, but I just want to give you the very bare facts first, so you can hear this from what is probably the teacher's perspective.

DD1 (6yo, in Y2) had show and tell on Friday. She took in a plastic ring, just a bit of old tat, that she got in another country. Some children in her class started to tease her and told her that this country doesn't exist. DD says the teacher (who is new and only started this term) didn't back her up and she was quite upset about it.

I picked DD up today (she usually goes to after school club), and mentioned to the teacher how upset DD was, and felt she hadn't been backed up. Teacher just said something along the lines of, "Well, that country means nothing to these kids anyway, I could tell them about Wolverhampton being a place and they wouldn't know about it. I probably just told them that there are lots of places in the world".

I said okay and left. But I feel I was very much given the brush-off. It seems that the teacher never told the class that DD was right, this country does exist. And she's at the age when it really matters to her that she is believed to be telling the truth.

There's more to it as well, but I guess the teacher doesn't know the rest so I'll keep that back for now....

I want to go back to the teacher and explain the rest to her, so she'll understand just how upset DD was, and why, but I suppose that's just causing more trouble than necessary. DD is over it now. I should let it go, shouldn't I?

OP posts:

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Mother2many · 16/05/2012 20:44

I know for a fact I would talk to the teacher about it... Even if she didn't know, or was having a bad day, whatever, this child needed someone to stand behind her. Even if it was... "lets look it up later type thing!"

Yes, she is just human...but the children do look up to her.

Ferguson · 16/05/2012 20:53

Re: gaps in teacher's knowledge: school I worked in, Yr1 teacher didn't know what a "sloth" was, and when class was thinking of words starting with 'V' child said 'vacuum cleaner'.
Teacher wrote on board 'vacume cleaner'. AND she was the SENCo! (I used to say 'takes one to know one!)

lilackaty · 16/05/2012 22:49

Perhaps she wasn't listening properly and hadn't realised what had happened. I think you should let the teacher know why it was important if dd mentions it again.

lilackaty · 16/05/2012 22:51

Sorry, that sounded very rude.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 16/05/2012 22:56

What a strange thing to say that the country would mean nothing to the kids. I am sure some would have heard of Israel.

seeker · 16/05/2012 22:58

You're telling me that a year 2 class didn't know that Israel existed?????

Or are you saying that a few children in the class were making some sort of political point?

zipzap · 16/05/2012 23:22

I reckon it is really odd for Y2 kids to say that any country doesn't exist - if they do, they are doing it for all the wrong reasons - ie to wind up the teacher/nice kid doing the show and tell but would have said that whatever country or place your dd had been talking about. In which case they are just naughty kids that the teacher should be trying to get back under control and not shouting out rude stuff interrupting somebody's show and tell, so she could have easily said 'Don't be ridiculous, of course Israel exists, don't you remember we learnt about it last term when we did xyz. Now listen nicely to AL's dd finish her show and tell'.

Or the kids have heard adults talking about Israel and saying stuff about it not existing and do 'know' what they are talking about - because they are parroting the horrible views of the adults around them. In which case it is even more important that she tells them - in a sentence - that it really does exist. Because by not actively explicitly telling them they were wrong and letting them diss your dd, she has condoned their behaviour and views.

And what a stupid thing to say - there are lots of places in the world. Your dd wasn't talking about lots of places, she was talking about one that she had been to, the other kids were saying effectively that she was a liar as it didn't exist (ergo how could she go somewhere that didn't exist). It was important to your dd, she was there and telling them all about a place and that was a chance for them to learn about a place if they didn't already know it existed. If your dd had taken in something from Wolverhampton and the other kids said that Wolverhampton, do you really think she would have said 'oh there are lots of places in the world' - I bet she would have said that of course it exists and dd is telling you about her visit there.

Worst possible scenario is that she (teacher) personally doesn't agree with Israel and that is why she allowed the comments to continue and didn't say they were wrong :(

slartybartfast · 16/05/2012 23:37

i woudl offer to go in and help, see for yourself. i spect she had a really busy morning, show and tell was perhaps just before assembly or before maths. she has a curriculum to get through - or perhaps she failed your test on israel.

seeker · 17/05/2012 10:26

I do find it hard to believe that a year 2 class didn't know that Israel existed. The RE requirement of the Nationa curriculum should ahve seen to that. Or that the teacher didn't correct them. Or that a class of 7 year olds didn't know that one of their classmates had an exciting background and spoke Yiddish. In my experience, speaking another language is fascinating to children - my bilingual niece was always being asked to "say something in Spanish"

I think there must be something more going on here.

outtolunchagain · 17/05/2012 10:36

By far the worst aspect of this story is the

"Well, that country means nothing to these kids anyway, I could tell them about Wolverhampton being a place and they wouldn't know about it. I probably just told them that there are lots of places in the world".

such low expectations and how dismissive, she has only had the class for a term but has dismissed them already as hopeless cases who know nothing of the outside world and who by the sounds of it she doesn't think worth teaching about the outside world,I would be apoplectic if a teacher said such a thing to me .

KarinG · 17/05/2012 10:47

Maybe just let it go. I'm not British, and moved to the UK just before I started primary school. I remember being told by the kids at school that the country I said I was from didn't exist and that I had made it up. I survived! It helped that my mum told me not to worry about it.

BrightnessFalls · 17/05/2012 11:51

she sounds like her hearts not in it. I think Id be looking for other schools.

Original poster

AnnieLobeseder · 17/05/2012 20:52

Brightness - I'd love to move school, there are already issues with this school, but we're leaving the area in 2 years and I don't want to move the DDs twice. I was moved at least once a year as a child and it damaged me in so many ways. No way will I do that to my DDs.

outtolunch - that's what I thought too... why is she writing off these intelligent and inquisitive children instead of inspiring their curiosity? I know DD would be interested to learn about the world.

Not too worried about DD1, she only has a little while left with this teacher. I will keep a quiet eye on her until the end of term, especially see what she has to say at parents' evening. Then if she still worries me, I'll just request that DD2 doesn't get her when the time comes.

Hopefully it was just a one-off bad day/judgement. The school couldn't sing her praises enough when they brought her in - she wasn't supposed to start until next year but apparently she was so amazing in interview that they let DD1's old teacher out of her contract early and brought her in this term.

I've also wondered if, because the children learn about Israel as being where Jesus came from, and a place from long-ago stories, that they view it as a kind of fairy-tale place.

OP posts:

Badgercub · 17/05/2012 21:26

Sigh.

It's good to know, as a teacher, that every single word I say will be analysed to the nth degree on the internet.

I heard an abused child on the carpet the other day, whispering things to her friend that I NEEDED to pay attention to. At the same time a boy was trying to tell me holiday stories...guess which thing I paid more attention to? Doesn't mean I didn't care about his holiday stories. Just means that I was distracted by something else more important.

In an ideal world I could have suddenly had an impromptu lesson on boy's holiday destination, but this isn't an ideal world, and I have 30+ kids to look after including abused, vulnerable and SEN kids. So I guess that makes me a monster and an awful teacher.

mum9989 · 17/05/2012 22:00

lol at how many teachers today were presented with fir cones to see if they passes the MN test - bit of a giveaway which parents are MNers - haven't our teachers enough to worry about?

KatieMiddleton · 17/05/2012 22:09

I thought the point of show and tell was education? What's the point of doing it if nothing is taken as a starting point for learning?

How sad.

AbbyLou · 17/05/2012 22:39

Show and Tell in my Y1 class is not about learning and I don't care one bit. It's about my children bringing in things that are important to them, that they are proud of, things that really matter that don't fit into the tight schedule of the National Curriculum. We do it on a Friday afternoon when they are too shot to do anything else. It's one of my favourite parts of the week. For me, the learning that takes place is about speaking and listening, mutual respect, sharing views with others etc.

seeker · 17/05/2012 22:40

So, badgercub- if one of yours had been talking about her country of origin, and other children were saying that country didn't exist, you wouldn't have said anything?

I am almost always on the side of the teacher, and on the side of finding out what actually happened, but if the op is telling us the full story ( and I am aware that she hasn't come back) I would be very concerned.

CurrySpice · 17/05/2012 22:50

WTAF is a pine cone test? Has it any actual basis in fact or reality? or is it just some made up clap trap

CurrySpice · 17/05/2012 22:52

And I know that kids love show and tell but I'm sure it's a PITA for teachers - especially - and with the greatest respect for the OP - the kids bring in "a bit of tat" to show. Perhaps she was trying to move things along to another child who had brought something more immediately apparently interesting than a plastic ring

Caz10 · 17/05/2012 22:57

seeker should badgercub have ignored the child with an abusive background to correct a geographical mix up? I know what I'd do if I was her

outtolunchagain · 17/05/2012 22:58

seeker the OP came back at 20.52.

badger I understand sometimes things have to be prioritised but to make such derogatory comments about your class is to a parent is pretty despicable in my book

moondog · 17/05/2012 23:01

I love the fir cone test!
Someone who cant pick up on and fan the spark of interest inherent in such an act shouldn't be teaching.

Awful teacher with coloured teacher should have been shot.

I remember my sister making a daisy chain one break and a teaqcher spitefully breaking it while hissing 'This is what I think of your stupid daisy chain.' Poisonous old witch.

seeker · 17/05/2012 23:08

"seeker should badgercub have ignored the child with an abusive background to correct a geographical mix up? I know what I'd do if I was her"

Absolutely. If one child was telling the teacher that she was being sexually abused while another child was being told by her classmates that her country of origin doesn't exist, then I would rather the teacher focussed on the child who was being abused. However, it does strike me that this is a somewhat unlikely scenario.

KatieMiddleton · 17/05/2012 23:17

For me, the learning that takes place is about speaking and listening, mutual respect, sharing views with others etc.

Yes AbbyLou that was rather my point. I am aware that learning and education is not just about the national curriculum. It seems that on this occasion nobody learnt anything much about mutual respect or sharing views. Or that Israel is a real country even.

I don't see the point of doing Show and Tell if it's not about learning about things that are interesting or practising soft skills like listening and respect for other's opinions.

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