Bottom 20% only get help??

[trickydickie]

Can anyone please help me.

My daughter has been diagnosed as dyslexic by the school ed psychologist. She is getting an alpha smart to help her written work.

We have been told she will not get any extra help from the school ie. 121 help.

There are 2 other dyslexic children in her class who have 121 support with the support for learning teacher and I would like my daughter to have this to.

When I asked her class teacher about her seeing this teacher for reading I was told that there are other children in her class who are worse at reading so they will get the extra support, not my daughter.

My daughter really struggles with maths but has never received any help with this either. We are having a meeting with the deputy head and class teacher on Thursday so I want to know if schools have a criteria for what children they help.

After speaking to another parent this morning who seems to think her daughter is receiving 121 help from the school because she falls into the bottom 20% of her class (possibly year group).

I feel my daughter must fall into the bottom 20% of her year group, particularily in maths.

We are in Scotland, my daughter is nearly 10 and in Primary 5. Her 6 year old sister can do her maths homework.

Will I get the teachers hackles up if I ask how low down in the class does she have to be to get extra help?

I have posted in special needs but no reply yet (with a slightly more in depth question).

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to answer this.

Hi Don't know if things are different in Scotland but in England schools (I believe) need to have an educational plan for each child. Ask to discuss how you can all work together to improve her performance and identify needs she may have. I'd ask if there is any way to help to get funding for extra support. The main thing is to be consistant, insistant and polite in requests for extra help. Just because they say no once, don't back down. Ask for regular up dates with teachers/heads about her progress and detail everything (esp your concerns and their refusals) in emails/letters following meetings. Good luck

I'm in Ireland so don't know how it works in Scotland but here it seems to me it's more like the bottom 10%. We werectpld ds3 was "lucky" to get help alongside 2 other children in a class of 30.

Thanks for the advice wheres - I liked your bit about just because they have said no once, doesn't mean I can't ask again. I will remember that.

She has and education plan and what is called a staged intervention plan. She is on level 4 of a staged intervention plan.

Thanks chip- think I am talking rubbish saying 121 help. Not sure that exists in the school, but there is certainly a support for learning teacher who teaches children, but possibly in a group situation rather than 121.

Not sure where the figure 20% came from. As I am sure my daughter is bottom in the class for maths, she thinks she is second bottom.

Her speed for reading is that of a 7.5 year old, yet this doesn't qualify as low enough to get help from the support teacher because there are children lower than her

Sorry if I sound ungrateful,moaney and whiney. I will definately try to be more positive when speaking to the school on Thursday. She has an alpha smart in school which is great. They have taken her back to basics with her spelling, which is great too.

Think we just need to find the money and get her private 121 help.

There are no rules about what kids do and don't get help.

It is up to each school to decide how to spend their budget and what interventions to do with what kids.

Indi - well according to her class teacher there are rules at my daughter's school about who gets support with the support teacher for their reading.

I know it is up to each school how they spend their budget. There is a budget there and none of the strategies they have been using for the past 6 years have helped my daughter so I want the strategy of a support teacher.

The class teacher clearly told me that the support teacher has no time left in her timetable for my daughter because there are other children in the class who struggle more with reading.

Rather than posting in special education needs, try posting in special needs children. It is just under am i being unreasonable and it gets a lot more traffic.

Good luck

DS gets 1-1 help with spellings as he is on SA+, after specialist teacher's recommendations. He is extremely bright so is towards the top in Maths, Science and Reading (if not top), but towards the bottom in spelling and writing. He's not the worst, but still gets help because of the massive discrepancy (7 year gap between reading and spelling ages).

mrsb- thanks that is an interesting point. My daughter's spelling age is of a 6 year olds and her comprehension is of an 11 year olds. So 5 years discrepancy. Maybe because she is bottom of all groups she gets no help then.

I spoke to an agency called Enquire today, who are an organisation set up to tell you/children what they are legally entitled to if they have a special educational need. They have advised that it is very rare for any child now to receive any form of 121 support at school in Scotland now, due to cutbacks etc.

Still, I want the support for learning teacher to spend time with her. I am fine with it being in a group situation if appropriate.

Ineed - thanks I will post where you suggested.

Tricky - I spent a lot of time and energy and stress fighting for my DD to get extra help.

In the end she got 10 hours 1:1. It didn't help at all.

10 hours 1:1 on teaching her to spell. And at the end of it she still couldn't spell any words correctly.

Are you fairly sure extra teaching will help your DC?

Has any previous teaching helped?

Extra 1:1 will only help if the problem is to do with inadequate teaching.......

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18061348

Mrz - I don't think that news article is relevant.

It's talking about kids with statements - which the OP doesn't have. And kids without SEN who are on the SEN register. Also not relevant......

It's also talking about School Action and School Action Plus Indigo

Within the school population, 2.7% of children have statements - representing those with the greatest physical or mental health needs.

But almost 18% of children are categorised in two lower levels of special need - School Action and School Action Plus - representing about 1.4 million pupils.
This includes difficulties such as persistent emotional, social and behavioural problems, communication difficulties or a sustained inability to make progress.

But the National Autistic Society voiced concerns that tightening the criteria for special needs could mean that more children with autism will "fall through the gaps in the education system".

Nasen, the association for special needs professionals, says it has concerns does about the scrapping of School Action and School Action Plus and says schools will need "advice and support" in implementing this.

among the changes

To help children that have a learning need, but not necessarily a special educational need, we will:

<span class="italic">Extend the Achievement for All programme so personalised support is mainstream in all schools. This programme has seen an increase in results and a decrease in pupils on the SEN register.</span> <strong>We are inviting bids for an independent organisation to extend the programme across the country.</strong>
<strong>Facilitate the transition to the open market of Every Child a Reader, Every Child a Talker and Ever Child Counts programmes to help those children struggling with early communication, reading and mathematics.</strong>

privatised SEN?

I?ve never come across a school that uses a percentile figure for initiating support, so very much doubt there is a set cut off for where support begins. If you think about it 20% getting one to one that?s the equivalent to 6 children in every full class! £££££££. So don?t feel going down that route will get you the support you want for your child. If your child has a diagnosis has she got an IEP or provision map? That could be an opening for your discussions with the deputy head. Ask the school where your daughter?s areas for development are, what the targets are and how school and you can help her meet these targets.

But as SENCo I will be brutally honest and say we don?t meet all our children?s needs as well as they could in a perfect world. On one hand I have a budget to employ teaching assistants, buy resources, send staff on necessary training, pay for additional speech therapist and education psychologist?s hours, and on the other I have group of children on the SEN register with assessment needs, intervention and support requirements and resources that I feel they would benefit from. The gulf between them is huge. So we are creative as we can be with the amount of cash we have; we tap into the good will of the (very poorly paid) teaching assistants to do unpaid overtime; teachers give up their own breaks, lunchtimes and after schools; I, and many colleagues spend hours attempting to source or make resources at reduced costs; I send time looking for and applying for any additional grant going. Our school is not well off, but doesn?t attract any additional funding from the LA. We are not extravagant in other areas, at the expense of our SEN pupils. We just have to acknowledge we are doing the very best we can, but as a teacher we always want the ideal for our children so ? that leaves many teachers feeling they wish there was more.

So, I?m sad to say OP, if your school is in the same boat, you may find the school just has to identify how they can spread a limited budget and feel your child?s needs can be met by Quality First Teaching (skilled differentiation and support by the class teacher). Our LA doesn?t give statements or identify support just because a child has a diagnosis of anything.

Thanks everyone.

Actually Indigo - I am in Scotland so I think my daughter has the Scottish equivalent to a statement.

Before school diagnosed dyslexia she was on what is called a staged intervention plan level 2 then 3. Since diagnosis she is on a stage 4, which I have still to be given by the school (will hopefully get it at the meeting).

My friend's son (attends a Scottish special needs school) and he has autism is on a staged intervention plan level 4 too.

I think she has been put onto level 4 because she has some aids in place ie. alphasmart.

Abigail, thanks for helping me understand how the special needs system works. My problem is that I know that at least two children in my daughter's class get taught by the support for learning teacher. They too have dyslexia but have had their diagnosis longer. I know people say the diagnosis means nothing etc. I just feel that they get this support from this teacher and I now want my child to have a chance of the same support. Even if just for a couple of terms and then we can see if it has made a difference.

I know this may come across as selfish, but I feel the other strategies are not helping her progress.

Thanks again everyone. I feel now that I am a bit more prepared with what questions to ask on Thursday.

But those other kids dyslexia may be way worse than your DDs.

Your school is probably not lying when they say there are lots of kids whose reading is worse than hers.

In England she wouldn't qualify for a statement just because she has an alpha smart. And she would be very unlikely to qualify for a statement with the difficulties you have described.

You have to do everything you can to help your DD, including begging school for more help. But, you have to do other things for her as well.

For example, have you had her eyes checked by Jordan's Opticians?

Or tried something like toe by toe with her?

There is loads you can do. What did the EP recommend?

OP my DD 9 has dyslexia. School failed to diagnose so we went to Dyslexia Action for assessment. She now has 1.5 private tuition a week from DA which we fund despite that fact that does have a statement. She is making slow but good progress and I doubt that would have happened without us seeking her some specialist help

My child is in Scotland and although he hasn't been diagnosed with dyslexia he is due to be assessed soon (is in P3). He gets learning support in a group but has had periods of 1:1. That was because the teacher had some spare time and he was considered to be one of the children who would benefit most from this individual input (in part due to the severity of his difficulties but in part due to the belief this input would help). It did make a great difference but not sure if it would always be as necessary as at that early stage where he was making the transition from hardly being able to read anything to being able to attempt most basic words.

Did they assess your child for dyscalculia when they did the dyslexia assessment? I believe that is being recognised much more now and there are psychologists involved in the assessment process.

Jackadal -yes we are going to go the route of private tuition from dyslexia action. It is expensive though isn't it? Do you have to take your child to them during school time or does the private tutor come to yours? The British or Scottish Dyslexia association has also sent me a list of private tutors whom I still have to contact too.

Dh seems to think the school may be able to recommend a dyslexia private tutor to us.

Nospring - no she wasn't tested for dyscalculia. I am going to ask about that on Thursday.

I have just come across my local council publication on what help or assistance they can provide to dyslexic children. So, I now realise I should have also asked for the support for learning teacher to be at this meeting. Anyhow, this document does state that it is much harder to get a diagnosis of dyscalculia. The document is actually great and has me more focused now on what I need to ask.

Thanks to everyone for all your advice and taking the time to reply to me, apart from one poster who shall remain nameless but was nothing but rude and I will not bite!!

Thanks again.

Hi the DA tuition is £50 per week and I have to take DD into neighbouring town for her lesson so obviously I can't work that day. There is only DD and another child in the lesson and the tutor is truly wonderful. DD loves her lessons which is a bonus. You can also buy a PC game called Word Shark which they use as part of the tuiton programme.

Hope all goes well.

Not sure what the document is but just to say a diagnosis of dyscalculia isn't particularly difficult to make - it follows the same logic as dyslexia, that is despite input to teach number related tasks there is a discrepancy between cognitive ability and numerical ability. I suspect that what is harder at present is getting this recognised and support. Many schools are struggling to support pupils with dyslexia so to have something else to support might just finish them off

Jak - so you do take your daughter out of school for the lesson? I am presuming then that you pay £50 and the other child's parents pay £50 as well?

Though it is good to hear your daughter enjoys the lesson. That is half the battle.

We are going to make a decision about the private tutoring after Thursday. Thanks for the info.

patoss and BDA will be able to give info about suitably qualified tutors in your area.