Spelling!

[WhereMyMilk]

DD who is in yr3 and has recently turned 8 is a bright girl.

Achieved level 3 across the board last year in her Sats. Is a really good fluent reader.

However, she is really really shockingly bad at spelling. Sometimes when she writes, the words are nothing like what they are supposed to be, not even phonetically spelt, IYKWIM.

Some I think, is because she rushes to get her thoughts down, and I know she sometimes feels under pressure to achieve a certain amount of writing. But we have talked with teachers, who are backing off with it, as they don't want to knock her confidence. They are also now, allowing her time at the end to check her work, but I think she rushes throguh this too, as she can be under confident in things so doesn't want to draw attention to it.

She does go to an extra spelling group, but as she works hard and practices, she manages to get 10/10 every week in tests however, when it comes to putting that word into practice, things just don't follow through...

She now is just saying that she's rubbish at spelling, so defeating herself, and confidence is plummeting:(

Any help or ideas would be gratefully received, thank you.

Watching with interest....dd exactly the same Yr2, excellent reading, spelling tests, usually all right - keywords for Year 2, only got about 5 wrong when tested...put them into a sentence - seems to spell phonetically.

Today she even spelt like wrong!!! licke!!! Honestly, she knew that in reception. Just so keen to get it all down, doesn't seem to think.

Its hard to tell from your post what your child's spelling is like and if it is age appropriate or not.

If spelling is really bad you can buy a label of dyslexia. Even if your reading is fine.

However a label of dyslexia won't improve her spelling.

Either way, you have to work out why she is bad at spelling before you can work out how to help her.

It may be she just rushes.
Or maybe she's been badly taught.
Or maybe she doesn't read enough
Or maybe she has subtle vision problems (like visual discrimination problems) which make spelling hard for her (these problems are very common and is quite likely)
Or maybe she has subtle hearing problems like auditory discrimination problems.
Or maybe she just gets tired
Or maybe she just doesn't think it's important.

It's really hard to unpick it all.

Is she good at word searches? Where's wally? Spot the difference type stuff?

Her father has dyslexia but am not sure for DD.

She reads all the time, currently reading Merlin books and Worst Witch series.

Eyes fine, tested last month. Ears fine-though has ability to tune out if wishes

Loves doing word searches, will try to get her to do more though. Has done her brother's where's wally-and saw him before me Haven't done spot difference for a while but will try some thanks.

Teachers say they don't understand it as she is such a fluent reader, so obviously recognises and knows the words.

I just want to help her...

I'd suggest that she's got an excellent visual memory but hasn't been taught the alphabet code systematically.

You can check this out using a nonsense word test such as this one:
www.rrf.org.uk/pdf/Ruth%20Miskin%20Nonsense%20Word%20Test.pdf

I agree my son could read anything put in front of him from a very young age and was never taught phonics as a result his spelling and writing suffered.

I don't know if this helps but I was the same at her age. I was a top reader, but couldn't spell to save my life. And I can't spell now. For some reason, although I was fine with the whole words, as soon as you started to break them down into letters everything just fell apart. It wouldn't make sense to me. I wasn't good at reciting the alphabet either - it wouldn't stick in my head.

I think the thing to do is reassure. It really doesn't matter so much in the greater scheme of things. When I got to university I suddenly noticed that I was surrounded by people with bad handwriting and bad spelling!

My DS is the same (yr 3, nearly 8). Excellent reader (reading age 12), but poor speller (less than age 5, when assessed 6 months ago). He has been given the label of "specific learning difficulties in spellling, writing and finemotor control" which I believe is a euphemism for dyslexic with fine motor problems (so not quite the same as your LO).

To cut a long story short he went on an IEP to access 1-1 help in spelling. He is doing Word Wasp 10 mins a day with a TA and has a spelling group too. He's also using an Alphasmart computer to help with writing, but that's more to do with his fine motor problems TBH (which is another story)....

I know you say you have had an eye test done, but so had DS. He had really serious eye tracking problems which were missed 3 times by a very well known high street optician. On a hunch I took him to a behaviour optometrist who spotted the problem straight away. She was amazed he could read at all, let alone so well, but his brightness compensated. He has just finished Vision Therapy and his eyes work properly now. He is making progress with his spellings , but it is quite slow as it's unlearning things....

an eye test by an optician doesn't tell you very much.

An eye test by a behaviour optometrist will tell you more about how the eye muscles work, ie they will test for eye tracking problems and convergence insiffuciency.

An eye test by an occupational therapist will tell you more about how she sees, ie does she have visual perception problems.

And again a hearing test doesn't check for auditory discrimination problems.

So it really depends how much it bothers you.

If you want to do a daily spelling program I think apples & pears is the best one.

It will help, to a point.

But obviously if the problem is really a vision problem it wont help as much as vision therapy....

There are no easy or cheap answers.

Besides spelling, do you have any other concerns? Are there any other minor problems which might help point to the root of the spelling problem?

Can she sit still?
Does she concentrate well in class?
Does she have lots of friends?
Are her fine motor skills good? (drawing, cutting, sewing, handwriting)
Are her gross motor skills good? ( swimming, riding a bike, running)
Is she good at catching and throwing a ball?
Does she ever mishear what you say?
What's her memory like?
Does she ever reverse her letters?
Does she ever skip words when reading?

Hi, My daughter struggles alot with spelling too. She's yr 3 and 8 next mth.
She's actually in the bottom groups for most things and ive often wondered if theres an underlying problem but her teacher doesnt seem worried as she is progressing and moving through the levels at her own pace. Think she was 2b's for everything at end of yr 2 and 2a for reading.

Even the key words that she's been learning since reception she still can spell wrong! ie, Wen (when), Wher (where) licke (licke).
She tends to add 'e's to the end of words that dont need them but misses them off words that do??

Indiogo bell your questions in your post interest me;

Can she sit still? yes
Does she concentrate well in class? yes, when not being distracted
Does she have lots of friends? she mingles well by relies on 1 good friend alot
Are her fine motor skills good? (drawing, cutting, sewing, handwriting) yes to all but handwriting not so good!
Are her gross motor skills good? ( swimming, riding a bike, running) Average, i'd say co-ordination is poor & movements are a bit 'messy' but she can do these things
Is she good at catching and throwing a ball? not really
Does she ever mishear what you say? no
What's her memory like? good
Does she ever reverse her letters? yes
Does she ever skip words when reading? yes

What do u think?

Just to add, she's quite immature alot of the time & acts babyish for attention, talks in a baby voice alot and is always saying people are being mean to her even if its something really trivial. She also gets taken advantage of very easily by other children.

If she reverses her letters and skips words when reading I think she could have an eye tracking problem.

It's also possible there's something else going on as well.

Don't be reassured by the teacher not being concerned. They're generally not worried - and generally don't know enough about SEN.

I have a year 2 DD, appalling spelling, reads and writes lots and lots.

Watching and reading thread with interest.

Sorry! Have had a busy weekend with DD-concert performance-recorder, though also plays the violin fairly well too.

Will try to answer questions!

Can she sit still- yes always very well behaved in class.

Does she concentrate well in class- yes she does but does find others and their behaviour a distraction if that makes sense. At home, she can be a bit of butterfly with things, ie start one project then leave it on the table maybe before completion, and then whizzing off to something else.

Does she have lots of friends- has a best friend she's had since 2yrs old but doesn't get to see often as now live 20mins away, but they are still very close and can pick up where they left off IYKWIM. Also has another local close friend and a wider group of friends through school and brownies etc

She is a sensitive wee thing though and can be easily upset and hurt by others. Teachers all comment on how kind and thoughtful of others she is, and how quick to empathise.

Fine motor skills- fine. Sews, knits, neat writing, plays the violin, good on the computer etc.

Gross motor skills- swims like a fish, too fast on bike, runs ok.

Not sure about catching/throwing, average I would say.

Doesn't mishear, though sometimes I think tunes me out and then sometimes claims to not have heard me.

Memory-elephant!

Doesn't reverse letters ever.

Doesn't miss words out when reading. Reads a lot!

Spelling is just a nightmare. Earlier wrote about hunting for something and put huRt-I questioned her on that and what she thought-she noticed it but didn't know why she'd done it.

Hmmmm. I have no idea then.

Doesn't sound like eye tracking.

Doesn't sound like dyspraxia.

Possibly nothing or possibly poor teaching or possibly auditory problems.

Are you sure her spelling isn't age appropriate?

Can you give us a couple of sentences she's written?

Thanks IndigoBell, any suggestions on where I go next?
How do I get her eye tracking checked? She does wear glasses already for being short sighted, can the optician test for this?

Want to help her If I can but not sure how? :(

WMM - here's an auditory discrimination test.

Clairesy - eye tracking is easy to fix but very hard to find the right person.

A regular optician won't help at all.

A behaviour optometrist might help. I've listed the ones I've heard good things about here

However, the BO i took my kids to was no good, so I certainly can't recommend all of them.

reading plus will probably help.

If you google you will find more stuff online. The software that helped my kids was 'home therapy software', but it's very hard to get in the UK.

this is what cured my kids eye tracking problems.

Indigo, letter written to the tooth fairy recently after swallowing her tooth!

Dear firys, sorry I mite of swolled my tohth so I put a flower insted. Hope you fgif me. Yours sinsely, mini milk. PS could you write back to me and put it under my pillow. Xxx

So half terrible half good!

I don't think that looks particularly bad for Y3.

That spelling wouldn't worry me.

Her teachers are concerned. I think because she's ahead with everything else and then behind with just spelling it's a bit weird and I think find it difficult to reconcile this IFKWIM.

Out of their list of most used words, she can only spell about 50% of them.

I just want to help her as her confidence is being knocked :(

As mentioned above my DS is gthe same with writing. We are dong a spelling intervention called Word Wasp, but Indigo would recommend Apples and Pears. He's also doing 1-1 with a teacher friend and learning high freq words with her. He's doing best with mnemonics eg "Girls I really love" for GIRL etc etc. We get him to make up the mnemonic himself so it sticks. Some are pretty daft, but they stick.

My dd is in year 4 and it's only in the last couple of months that we have moved from a phonics type spelling to a true spelling when writing sentences.

This is a child who never failed to get 10/10 in spelling tests in year 3 and whose reading was great but used to just rush things and spell words as they sounded and appeared to be unable to break the words into syllables.

For some reason its just kicked in and they have have become good at spelling in written work and also have started to use good adjectives in their writing.

I pushed and pushed spelling to no avail but is has just come on its own.

Shamelessly bumping for advice