Should Y4 children be learning times tables?

[purpleroses]

DD moved schools last year. Her old primary school tested them on their times tables each week, so she was gradually learning them all. Her new school doesn't seem to do this at all, and I've noticed she's now forgotten a lot of what she knew a year ago. They seem a long way behind in maths generally, which I'm going to ask the teacher about next week.

But just wondered what the norm is with times tables learning - is this something schools are supposed to do? Or is it eniterly up to the teachers?

2,5,10 some work on 3, and 4's in Year 2.

2,3,4,5,6,9,10's in Year 3.

All to 12 by end of year 4 here, all tested weekly from year3 onwards with certifiates, housepoints and timestables tree climbing as incentives.

we have started in Y2

Is that normal do you think Rosemary? Or just what they do in your school?

DD isn't going to know them all the way to 12 by the end of this year, and nor are the rest of her class

hmm ds1 is in year 2 and has been doing 2, 5, and 10
possibly others, but those are the only ones he has said about so far (he doesn't tell me much)

if your daughter has started learning i would maybe practice with her a bit if she's willing to, so she doesn't forget them

Are you sure the rest of the class don't know them already?

I doubt the rest of the class would know them all by the middle of Y3.

No, I'm quite sure they don't have any formal testing on them or anything like that.

Why?

Most of my Y2 class knew them all before they went into Y3

No, I'm quite sure they don't know them. DD says she is the best in her class at maths. She's bright, but was well aware at her old school that a few of the kids were better at maths. It the others all knew them, I'm quite sure DD would be aware that she was behind. She's quite self-aware.

I'd be pretty amazed at an entire mixed ability class of Y2/3 kids knowing all their times tables up to 12 - are you a teacher mrz and yours did?

if the others all knew them

I'm a Y2 teacher

At a mainstream mixed ability school? If so, I'm impressed - but am fairly sure you're not teaching at my DD's school!

and most of my class knew them to 12 and the related division facts before they moved to Y3 hopefully most of current class will know their tables to 12 too (not so sure about the division facts but some will)

ds in year 3 is consolidating 2, 3, 5 and 10 - he's supposed to be one of the top three in the class at maths. I know the year 5 teacher expects children to know them all so I presume they do the rest in year 4.

TBH if I were you i would just get on with doing it yourself. That's what we're doing, as there's not much chance of ds building on his general ability in maths if he hasn't got the building blocks.

my year R daughter has started the basics already - counting in 2s, 5s, and 10s - I would guess thats the starting point to learning times tables ?

yes mummynoseynora

Yes, I can do them at home, though was actually doing more when she was at her old school and given a test each week. As I've discovered, you need to keep it up for their knowledge not to slip back. She's been at the new school a year now and is still doing things she did in her old school, so I'm not very happy with them. I'm perfectly able to teach DD maths myself, but isn't that what they're supposed to be doing?!!

I work in Y1. We do counting in 2s, 5s and 10s in Y1 but no learning of tables.
Not sure abut in Y2, don;t work in that year. (No Y3 up, infant school only)

Not sure when DD started learning them but she knew them all, or rather could work them out for a test, by end of Y4 and this year in Y5 is consolidating them and getting much quicker with recall. They started with tests in Y3 iirr.

When I was growing up and in primary school (70s) we had to know all our tables to 12x12 be Christmas in first year of middle school - which is Y5 in today's terms.

My class do 50 out of order table (so not 1X 2X 3X) questions in 5 mins each morning If they get 50 correct they do 50 mixed multiplication /division questions for the same table the next day and if they get them correct they move onto the next table.

once they know 2x 5x and 10x they complete 50 mixed out of order questions then move to table of their choice so in any day children are working on different tables

Sounds a bit like how DD's school did them, but from Y3 formally with tests, not y2. Lots of children on different tables too in same test. Seemed to work well though. DD just needs to get faster, but she is a fair bit older too, even still schools till does them pretty regular (weekly I think) to keep them all up to speed with them. And reverse ones thrown in there too iirr - so divisions and multiplicatiosn.

DD is Year 2 - knows, 2, 3, 5, 10 and is doing 4's by the end of the term. She actually knows the 4's as we have a tape in the car, but not instant recall on radomn ones just yet. She also knows the link to division.

They learnt 2, 10 in Year One.

Expectation is that they know all their tables and square numbers by the end of Y4.
I thought that was a national expectation.

Ds1 in year 5 knows all his up to 12 - and is expected to do them in less than 5 minutes. Ds2 in year 3 knows up to about 7 times table, but I would expect him to know up to 12 by end of year 4.
DS year 5 gets tested on them
On a daily basis ( at school).

I have managed to fight the school into getting the children to chant the tables like we used to as kids.

DS1 is in Y5 and knows all his tables up to 12 and DS2 in Y2 knows his 2, 5, 10, 3 and 4's.

We now go through the 1 x 2 is 2 etc etc every day in Y2 where I work and it is really helping get it into their heads.

In our school we had a new Maths curriculum 4 years ago. My current year 6 class are the first cohort to have had consistant timestables work since Yr 2 and the difference it makes is phenomenal.

We analysed a SATs Mental Maths test last week, and decided that 15 out of 20 questions involved times tables somehow - Multiplication, Division, Fractions of a number, Ratio, Finding area.....

The other benefit is that if their times tables are on immediate recall, then they have so much more brain power left over for the rest of the question - the context, the unit, the second part.