primary school appeal based on distance

[lilmum777]

Hi, I'm new to mumsnet. I would be really grateful for some advice/guidance. We have applied for a reception place to start Sep '12.
Our first choice of school is actually our closest school. This year their catchment after SEN, medical and siblings was 0.545miles. We are 0.545miles away according to the LA measurements. However, we did not get offered a place because there was another family with the same distance and the addmissions dept went to the fourth decimal place.
The family that got offered a place are 0.5447miles away and we are 0.5448miles away. That is 16cm!!
I really think that they should have selected between us using random computer selection. I have been trying to find out about the accuracy of measurements without any luck. How can they accurately measure 16cm??
They use geocodes and it's 'as the crow flies'.
I'm really stuck. I think for a successful appeal outcome we would have to prove that they should have used random selection. But I need to prove that the margin of error in measuring 0.0001miles is too great to consider.
Any ideas?

Hi nlondondad They said it's the centre point of our property.
Does anyone have an idea about what information I should ask the LEA for? i'm thinking of emailing them later today to ask for info regarding the centrepoint location and units used. Not sure exactly what to ask. I need to get information to help prepare a case for appeal on the grounds that for a measurement of only 0.0001miles (16cm) that they should have used random selection between us and the the other family who were 0.0001miles closer than us

By "property do they mean the land area ie area of the site your house is on?

Would be logical to do it that way rather than use the building on the site. So you could ask where the data comes from that is used to calculate the centroid and how the calculation is done...

It's normally the centre of the property. Although you could argue that the centre of the plot would be better as long as all distances use the centre of the house this is entirely fair. The council have exact maps of the location of every property in there area which are the maps used. (anyone who has bought a house or applied for planning permission should have seen the local authority map of their house.)

By property I mean house!

Most LAs seem to use the address point. That is a point determined by the Ordnance Survey in conjunction with data from Royal Mail. If the LA is doing that your only argument is if they have used the address point for the wrong house. Where the address point falls on your property is irrelevant.

I have seen some LAs using the distance from the front gate. As long as they identify the correct location for your front gate they are fine.

I have also seen some LAs using the centre of your property. That would mean the plot of land and would be unaffected by any changes to the property.

I don't recall seeing any LAs using the centre of your house. That would be prone to error caused by changes to the house as SchoolsNightmare describes.

SchoolsNightmare - You must have some very big teaspoons! None of mine are anywhere near that big!

unaffected by changes to the HOUSE. Sorry.

I've just been in touch with the LEA. They said they use data from the NLPG, who I contacted. NLPG said they hold data that they receive from the LA. Hopefully I will be able to find out the margin of error in the geocodes and in the measurements made.
I've got the eastings and northings for the school and for our home. Interestingly, the school Es and Ns are 6figures plus 2 decimal places but the home ones are only six figures.

I'm lost! I don't know where to find out what the margin of error is.
I do have the name of the person who is the custodian for the LLPG and sod's law, he's not available today. Hopefully I'll be able to speak to him soon.
Any suggestions or advice very welcome.

The NLPG is an organisation owned by the Local Government Association and Ordnance Survey.
The eastings and northings data give a map location and the more numbers that are in the data the more accurate the positioning of the point. Each successive increase in accuracy (from 6 digit to 8 digit to 10 digit) pinpoints the location by a factor of 10. So a 6-figure grid reference identifies a square of 100-metre sides, an 8-figure reference would identify a 10-metre square, and a 10-digit reference a 1-metre square
If the LA is measuring the straight line distance from one marker to another marker then that can be done very accurately but clearly if they are only using a 6 figure reference for the home then it is from the school to any point in a 100 metre square and therefore the accuracy has to be 100 metres at the home end and 10 metres at the school end. Under those circumstances the 16 cm difference they claim in your case is totally misleading
Having said that my understanding from everything that I have learnt on this subject at admission appeals is that the accuracy can be down to cms, so I think you need to establish just what they are measuring.

admission I don't think I was clear enough in my last message, sorry. The eastings and northings each have 6 figures. As far as I understand, this means the grid ref has 12 digits??

Also the figure used for the school ie the eastings and northings have an additional 2 decimal places.

I actually spoke to the LLPG custodian today who then referred me back to the LEA. I have now emailed them to request details about random error/margin of error, point of home which is used for measurement etc. When I spoke to the admissions team yesterday, I was told there is no margin for error???

He said they would go to 8 decimal places before using the random selection between 2 equidistant applicants.

If the eastings and northings between them have 12 figures then the reference block should be a 10cm square. I am not sure what relevance the additional 2 decimal points have.
The admissions team would say there is no margin for error wouldn't they, but they are fallible like everybody else and occasionally mistakes happen