is this true re: levels at end of KS1

[TiredAndColdMummy]

Helping out in the school I saw a printout in the copier room showing all the assessments for autumn and spring terms for my son's class. I know what my son's level is, but I was interested to see how the class was as a whole. About six of them have a level 3 for literacy. Not knowing a lot about how these levels work I have looked them up and from what I've read:

1. A level 3 at the end of KS1 is considered unusual (three of these were 3a)
2. The expected level is 2b

I think that a 3a might be exceptional but is it true that a level 3, even a 3c, is unusual?

How do these work - I heard that 2b is the average but if that's the level children are expected to attain, then it can't be an average can it?

My son is most certainly not one of the 3s btw. He's working really hard but has a long way to go yet - is on 2a.

sorry that was mean to be 1a for son. Typo (and a little bit of wishful thinking)

In my experience (I have two in KS2 and one in KS3) 2b is the expected level, but there are always a handful that reach 3's. It isn't necessarily an indication of what they'll leave with at the end of KS2.

DD1 got a 2b at the end of KS2 and 5a when she left primary.

Level 3 at the end of ks3 isn't at all rare - maybe 20% nationally?

Sorry at the end of ks1 I meant!

that's good to know thank you. I don't think son is ever going to be an academic, but I am quite sure he's a late bloomer. I am really certain once it all clicks into place he'll shoot forward. Plus I have heard from so many other parents that these things tend to level out when they're about 8 (he is one of the youngest in the class). To be honest, until the SATs thing I hadn't paid a blind bit of notice to these levels.

Just how much progression son was making compared to what he'd done before. He's had such a great year in that respect, it makes me feel a bit sad the there are these levels that don't seem to take account of this. He was a P8 at the start of the year. I think a 1a is brilliant!

OP I gather that you will not share this information in the playground? Info like you have offered is confidential and TBH even coming on MN and sharing it is a bit naughty.

Well done your son op. It sounds like as he is getting older he is 'settling' and improving. I would think 3a unusual but hey this is mumsnet so we will see...!
The main thing is that he is happy and progressing. Hope not too much SATs talk in your playground [always winds me up].

In dd's year, school are expecting around 30% level 3s, although they did say that that would be mainly 3cs. Think 3a would be more unusual although not "rare".

When I tried to look this up in the past I reckoned that something like 25% of children would get Level 3 in at least 1 subject. I've only ever known it to be noted as Level 3, no abc breakdown.
My experience was that it didn't necessarily correlate with "attainment" by y6.

In a talk we were given by teachers of my dd's year 2 class at the start of the year we were told that getting level 3's was pretty unusual at the end of year 2...

Maybe that for your school bubble - its certainly not unusual nationally!

In my experience as a teacher. 3a would be very unusual. A few children would be 3c maybe one or two a 3b.

Of course this will vary year to year and school to school.

My DS in year 2 is on 3b for reading and numeracy but we were told that is not the norm. His school say they expect children to be on 2b at the end of year 2. The phrase they used was "national expectancy of 2b".

Excuse the terrible punctuation! How very shameful for a teacher! I am a very tired teacher on maternity leave though!

I think year cohorts can vary wildly. DD1 was 3s across the board in her yr2 group - one of only about 4 in a total of 60. As a result she was bullied right up until Yr4 when she moved to middle school, where she ended up in top sets of about 16 children - strength in numbers, things got much better. She's in Yr6 now, expected 5a in everything and is sitting the English L6 paper.

DD2 was also 3s in everything, but in her year group of 60 there were 9 children at that level. As a result she is one of a bigger group, is seen (and sees herself) as pretty ordinary and is fine. She did hit 3a in reading and writing at the end of Yr2 and is expected to get 5c by the end of this year (Yr4). Fortunately her school is lovely, they take it in stride and make sure that she can keep on flying .

Oddly enough the cohorts above and below my DDs were very different - and it can't be anything in the water...

pointythings In reality I expect the Y6 teacher is cursing the Y2 teacher, as, to make expected progress (e.g. 1 level every two years) dd2 should be achieving a 5a in Y6. Raw data will show that she is making unsatisfactory progress.
(Yeah... silly)

True, but she is the real deal - if anything her levels have been kept on the low side. She has been benchmarked by teachers who have not met her and do not know how old she is (the school put themselves through this to check that their teachers are up to scratch) and the teachers who do not know her have marked her at least one sublevel above her own teachers. Her Yr6 teacher will just have to deal with her - and 8 others just like her.

Level 3 is above National expectations but not that unusual. We have 2 children working at 3c in our class which, in general, is a very low ability class.

DS finished yr2 last summer. When we got the piece of paper with his levels on the back there was a summary table for the year. So it is public knowledge that out of a class of 24 there were 6 on level 3 (no sub-grades shown for level 3). And it was also split by gender .... National %'s were also given for comparative purposes. State primary.

Not always the case that a dc given L3 at the end of KS1 won't make expected progress - My DS was given L3 in the SATS (no breakdown though, just L3, teacher assessment was 3a, but they don't give that from the SATS). He is currently easily tackling L6/L7 work in maths in Y5, and secure L5a in English. He is expected to sit the L6 papers next year.

Not unusual in his year group though - year group of 30, 15 are working at L5+ in maths. 2 years below, in my DS2's yr, year group of 90 in Y3, only 2 working at L4+. Depends on the cohort IMO!

When we got the piece of paper with his levels on the back there was a summary table for the year. So it is public knowledge that out of a class of 24 there were 6 on level 3 (no sub-grades shown for level 3). And it was also split by gender .... National %'s were also given for comparative purposes. State primary.

Schools have a statutory obligation to report the percentages for the year group - however, I assume the OP saw the individual results of the children, which will most certainly not be 'public knowledge'!

pointythings I wasn't making a comment on dd's achievements - it's just that Ofsted expect 2 levels' progress from Y2 to Y6, so a 3A to a 5C is not favourable progress in Ofsted speak. (But well done to dd anyway! Who cares what Ofsted thinks? )

I'm confused - they're supposed to make 2 full levels between Yr2 and Yr6 - yes? DD2 has gone from 3a to 5c in 2 years - she's in Yr4 now, not Yr6. That means she has done exactly what she was supposed to do in the last 2 years, 2 sublevels a year. To keep on track she will have to hit 6b in Yr6, not sure how that is going to work, but will see.

Sorry pointythings my mistake - thought she was Y6

No probs, mumbles. I don't have much time for OFSTED anyway, especially now that it's more than ever the government's plaything. Children don't always make progress steadily - and given the criteria for L6 and the way it's not really part of the structural assessment framework at the end of KS2 right now I'm not sure how the school is going to evidence what she's doing. That's the school's problem though, not mine.