reception school places

[bakerboys]

Hi,
Will start from the beginning. I applied online for a reception place for my son. There was a drop down box which said do you have a sibling in this school Sep 2012,(ie the infant school i was applying for) with the you will be in trouble for supplying false information. So i did not tick it as my other son would be in the junior school next door. However i did state in the box underneath (other info to consider) that i had a sibling next door. The criteria for my area is children in care followed by siblings. So based on this i would of 100% got a place,as the school secretary said so also she had even contacted the council before i saw her as she noticed my son was not on list to find out why he had not .I have now been given a school 3miles away and not my chosen school as they said i should of ticked this box. Which i feel was very misleading it has also happened to at least 1 other person the exact same thing. I know of at least 6 children who were lower down on the criteria than myself and have been given a place. Surely nobody even bothered to read them properly and if these additional notes carry no weight what is the point in including such a box?. I am number 1 on the list and the other person number 2 but should no place come available do we have a strong case with the appeal panel?. I have my copy of the emailed application which clearly states my sibling case,and all the people who ticked the box surely provided false info as most who have siblings who got in where moving up to the juniors so would not be in the Infants?. You even have to apply to the juniors from the Infants. I would appreciate any help from anyone.
Thanks

It all depends.

Where infant and junior schools are separate, as they are here, the admissions criteria ought to spell out what is meant by 'sibling' and whether it covers both schools. What do the admissions criteria actually say? Do they say siblings of children at the infant school, siblings of children at infant or junior school or just siblings? What does it say in the school prospectus or LEA's admissions booklet?

If the admissions category for siblings does only cover children who will have a sibling in the infants when they join the school, and so the decision to refuse you a place is technically correct, the fact that other children have wrongly been given places does not (in my view) help you.

What might help you more is if the admission criteria are sloppily worded and don't mean in practice what they appear to mean on paper (or online). If the intention is to give priority to siblings of children in the infants and juniors then the application form sounds misleading (I'm guessing because it is designed for 4-11 schools and nobody has thought about what 'this school' means in the case of separate infant and junior schools).

Will this be an infant class size appeal? (It should say so in the letter from the LEA informing you of the decision). ICS appeals are hard to win, but one of the grounds on which you can win is if the decision to refuse a place is so unreasonable as to be perverse. I think you could make a case around the fact that you were led astray by misleading wording on the application form and, through no fault of your own and trying to be scrupulously honest, you have missed out. What the appeal panel will make of that, I don't know.

If it isn't an ICS appeal, the bar is not set so high and you can introduce other arguments about your children being at school on the same site etc.

Also; if the admissions category is meant to cover siblings in the juniors too, a further argument in your favour is that you had mentioned on the application that your oldest would be in the juniors. So even though you had not ticked the box, the LEA should have been more on the ball and spotted that you fitted the criteria for the siblings category.

SchoolsNightmare is right that LEAs should simply offer places where children have missed out because of their mistake, but many LEAs insist on taking the matter to appeal anyway. I suspect they will here, because whether or not a mistake has been made - and if so, by whom - goes to the very heart of the dispute.

Lastly: beware of basing your complaint/appeal on what has happened to other children, because it is very difficult to know with certainty what category other applications were placed in. Some of those children who were (you think) placed in the wrong category, wrongly claimed a sibling link or should have been in a lower category than you might (for argument's sake) have a statement of SEN which immediately gives them a place.

Thank you i have just checked and if you have a child at the juniors you are given preference they are called linked schools?. Yes i would 100% of been given a place as people who have siblings and live further away from me gained a place, and people who do not have sibling gained a place closer to school but at our school the distance is 3rd in the criteria. I have spoken to a council member who has just told me the school deals with its own admissions? bearing in mind this is my 3rd going through the school and my son attends the nursery it baffles me why with my statement on the form was not picked up. If they deal with there own admissions and i have to appeal can the school be made to go over its 90? I feel each person ie school/council are blaming each other as when i pointed out my statement in a email to council they would not comment only saying maybe the system needs looking at, and feel the secretary is not telling me everything and keeps saying she is doing what she can.

The drop down box only said "a sibling at this school" If it had said infants or juniors i would of ticked it but only said Infant school the person who did the same as me never ticked box on those reasons and has a child at juniors

That's what the ICS issue is about. Where ICS rules apply - ie school admits in multiples of 30 - you can only win an appeal on 3 grounds

1. error depriving your child of a place
2. admission arrangements not in accordance with admissions code or the law
3. decision to refuse is so unreasonable as to be perverse

This applies to schools which are their own admissions authority as much as it does to community schools. If you win the appeal, the school will be ordered to admit your child as the 91st pupil - that's why the bar is set so high.

I think you can make a case around (1) and (3). You can argue that the LEA is at fault (I'm assuming it's the LEA's website/online application form) for not making it clear that linked schools count as the same school. The council's comments about 'looking into it' are useful ammunition here - keep that email! You can argue that the school is at fault for not identifying that your son fulfils the sibling criterion - after all, they know your family - and in not taking the pragmatic approach and putting right the confusion by giving your son a place.

Keep up the pressure on the school to rectify their error - you could hint that they will look silly at the appeal, trying to justify why they didn't treat your youngest as a sibling - and meanwhile gather your evidence for an appeal.

Yes definately some guilt as i asked can anybody jump over me as i know lists go up and down and she said no!. I most definately keeping a record of it all i know what can happen. Thanks for help i have completed and sent a appeal letter but would just love the security in knowing i have not got to be in 3 different place at once come September.

Who should i be questioning about there mistake the headmistress?. As so far the only contact regarding this issue and the mistakes that have happened is with the school secretary.

I suggest that you check the paper application form. I have direct experience of a situation where the online form was as the OP describes and the paper form asked a different question about siblings which gave those filing in the paper form an advantage as it was impossible to do what the OP did. The family appealed and got a place as the appeal panel said there had been a mistake. The LA changed their online process for the following year.....

Thank you Imogenh the paper 1 is different and is what i have used for my previous 2 children the reason i did it online this time was a paper 1 failed to turn up and i asked school who told me to contact council again i did and 1 never showed up ( have not mentioned as cant prove) and was worried i would be late in returning it this is why i believe it has not happened to me before this.I have tried to online to get a copy of the online form but cant says it is closed.

ok thank you have put some useful notes together to do tomorrow thanks all

There is a common application form for all schools in the LA, no matter whether the school are there own admission authority, so this issue will be LA wide not just your school. In every infant / junior school there will be the potential for this to have happened.
It is clear that the form is misleading and that the answer you gave is a correct answer. How can you say yes when they patently are not in the school. OK the literature says the infant and junior school are linked and therefore count but it is still wrong on the form. It is a neat argument to say all these others have made a false declaration, that will have a few lawyers spluttering.
You actually made a good decision to put on the application form the fact that you did have a sibling at the junior school as the powers that be can hardly say they did not know, it was there in black and white.
The only question is around who is culpable. You say that it is own admission authority, does that mean it is a faith school or what? Also what is the junior school? If it is its own admission authority then the school have made the mistake, they agree the list in category order and should have spotted the comment about a sibling. You could also argue that as the secretary saw straight away that you name was missing why was that not obvious to whoever helped compile the list (I suspect the secretary, would have been involved in this and if you are on good terms with them, ask who agrees the list)

Hi it is not a faith school we had to send our applications to the council who when I rang them to ask why my application was not delt with correctly they told me they gave the applications to the school who chooses from the list to give places to.

Is the school a community school? If so the LA should not be giving applications to the school. And regardless of the type of school it is not up to the school to choose who to give places to. If this is a faith school, free school, foundation school or academy they should be putting the applicants in order according to their admission criteria but it is up to the LA to decide who is admitted. If this is a community school they should have no involvement in the process at all.

Can you identify the school and LA involved please. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post that information publicly.

Found out from council a foundation school and I met the second criteria on sibling rule they never read my application properly which originally last Monday right up till now the school are not admitting it is there fault and not mentioned that they deal with the applications and saying even if I won on appeal head can over rule I am going through council to try and get to the bottom of it. They not happy school are not giving me correct facts and are worried they will have to go over there in take.

Thanks for your PM. Yes, this is a foundation school. The LA should send them details of everyone who has applied and the school (usually a sub-committee of the governors) should put them into order using the admission criteria. They must follow their published admission criteria. They cannot move people up or down the list for any other reason.

The head cannot under any circumstances overrule the appeal panel. If your appeal is successful they must admit your son. They have no choice in the matter. I would tell the appeal panel that the school has told you the head may overrule a successful appeal. If they are trying to refuse entry following a successful appeal they need to be reminded of their obligations. If, as I suspect, they are just saying this to try and put you off they must stop.

As Admission says, the school has made the mistake. They put the applicants in order according to the admission criteria. They should have spotted your comment about a sibling. I would also agree with Admission that, as the secretary spotted your name was missing straight away, it raises questions as to why it was not obvious when they put the list together.

Unfortunately I can't view the online form but if it was as you say it was clearly wrong. This isn't directly the school's fault but they should, in my view, have been on the lookout for parents in your situation. I would certainly raise the problem with the form at the appeal.

Have now managed to find the exact comment in order to tick the sibling box. Children with a bro/sis already at THIS school who will be in attendance at the time a sibling enters school. So my interpretation of THIS school was Infant school that is why i then wrote underneath but i do have a older child who attends the junior school. Have sent emails since Monday with no responses from either really and i submitted my appeal on Monday outlining everything.
I am still waiting for a call back from council with a response to questions i gave them earlier that was 3hrs ago with regard to who put the list together how many were supposed to of checked it, and why if council are the last to have the final say why they never noticed?
Thanks both.

Also on my application it says reason for preference i ticked box other then wrote underneath about juniors