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primary school admisions help

19 replies

juedanlil · 29/04/2012 16:33

Hi can anybody help ? My daughter has been refused a reception place at the school she attends nursery. But another mum who didn't even put this school on her application has got a place . She is now appealing because she doesn't want in . This to me doesn't make sense is this normal ?? Also a mum with a daughter in my daughters class put her application in late and has also got a place again this doesn't seem correct to me ?? X

OP posts:
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GirlsInWhiteDresses · 29/04/2012 16:47

You need to call your LEA to check if a mistake was made. If others got places who didn't even list it while you didn't, then there may have been a mistake. AFAIK those who request a school are higher priority than those who are allocated spare places.

SchoolsNightmare · 29/04/2012 17:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PanelChair · 29/04/2012 18:05

Yes, you need to double-check the LEA's decision. Did they put you in the right admissions category? Did they measure the distance to school correctly? But you also need to remember that

  • attending the nursery does not give you any priority for admission to the school

  • most applications are decided on the basis of distance, so people who live closer than you may well get a place when you don't

  • late applications are considered separately (once all the on-time applications have been decided), but against the same oversubscription criteria, so someone living very close to the school could still get a place on a late application, if places are still available

  • if people are not offered a place in any of their preferred schools, they will be offered one at the nearest school that still has a place. So someone who didn't name this school but lives very close to it may well be offered a place there.

  • you don't appeal not to go to a school, you appeal to go to the school you want. So, people who have been given places in your preferred school may well be appealing to get a place elsewhere.

PanelChair · 29/04/2012 19:18

Agh. MN went offline and lost a long post!

I had come back to add something in response to these comments from SchoolsNightmare.

The late applicant is a grey area - most LA's allow them as far as possible especially if there is good reason for the delay.

LEAs have to consider late applications ? they can?t dismiss them out of hand. The difference is in how they deal with them. Most late applications will be held back and will be considered once all the on-time applications have been decided. Late applicants therefore only get what?s left over. If there are mitigating circumstances (eg serious personal crisis which prevents the person submitting their application on time) the LEA may in rare circumstances agree to treat a late application as if it was on time, although plainly this will only work if the application is only just out of time.

The applicant who got the school place but never asked for it indicates a mistake by the LA so I would chase this up:

This isn?t necessarily evidence of any mistake, although it may be. On the initial application, OP (presumably) did not come high enough up the admissions priorities for this school and was given a place somewhere else. If for some reason a place became available at the time the late applications were being considered ? someone turned their place down, say ? then it would have been in the pool of places available to late applicants. The purpose of the late applications round is to match available spaces with the children who don?t yet have places, not to shift people up into higher preference schools.

OP needs to investigate what did happen here ? not to grumble about the late applicant getting the place, but to check when the place became available and (if she is top of the waiting list) whether it should have been offered to her. I doubt it, but it?s always worth checking.

prh47bridge · 29/04/2012 19:48

As others have said, the order of events is everything. I'm not clear why others are referring to the person who got the place as a late applicant - maybe they know something I don't.

If both you and the other person applied on time and this place was offered to them in the initial round of offers then a clear mistake has been made. There is absolutely no way someone who did not name the school as a preference should have got a place ahead of you in this scenario.

However, if you submitted your application late you would have gone to the back of the queue for places. That would means your application would only be looked at once all the on time applicants had been dealt with. If the other person applied on time they may have missed out on their preferences and been allocated a place at the nearest school with a vacancy, which just happened to be the school you wanted. Then, when your application was considered the school was full so you didn't get a place.

There are a number of other possible scenarios but I'm not going to list them all. You must ring the LA and find out:

  • was your application on time
  • was the other person's application on time
  • was the place allocated as part of the initial offers
  • if not, when did the place become available
PanelChair · 29/04/2012 19:59

Oops, sorry, that was me. OP has raised two issues - the person who did not name this school and got a place anyway and the person who applied late who got a place.

My post above was about the late applicant. SchoolsNightmare's comment was about the person who did not name the school. My apologies for muddling the two. I am on so many appeals threads at the moment that I am getting punch-drunk. I agree with SchoolsNightmare that people who did not name the school would have been behind people who did name it in the 'queue' in the initial allocation round, so this does merit further investigation.

juedanlil · 29/04/2012 21:22

Hi thanks for your responces , my application was in on time and had daughters current school top of the list.
The lady who got my daughters school Defo didn't put this on her application ( she doesn't like the early start) but got offered my 1st choice .
The lady who's application was late was because she she didn't realise you had to apply for a place in reception . And this is wot she has told me she told applications .

Should I email the admissions team to question this , or do I include it in my appeal . Thanks for all ya help x

OP posts:
ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 29/04/2012 21:26

Ask the questions now, as the answers may provide useful information for your appeal. If they reveal that a serious error was made, which cost you a place that should have been yours, you will have very strong grounds for appeal.

admission · 29/04/2012 21:31

You need to ask questions now, because from the limited information you have given there appears to be something wrong some where. There is not way that a person who did not put down the school should have been given a place at the school before you if you had the school now as your first preference.
Did you get allocated a school place? If you did then there is something seriously wrong. If you did not get a place allocated then this suggest something wrong with your application.
I would ring the admission office first thing tomorrow and ask them to explain how you did not get a place. Please make sure that you either get them to confirm by email their response or email them with your understanding of the conversation. You need to keep good records in writing of all the conversations that you have so that they can be put to any appeal, but I would hope that this can be sorted out before you get to a situation of an appeal.

juedanlil · 29/04/2012 22:20

Hi yep we did get a place at a different school not on our list.
I will email them first thing , how should I word it ? I feel I have good questions to ask and need answers from the right people , but am unsure how to go about it ? Thanks for all your help x

OP posts:
juedanlil · 29/04/2012 22:21

Hi yep we did get a place at a different school not on our list.
I will email them first thing , how should I word it ? I feel I have good questions to ask and need answers from the right people , but am unsure how to go about it ? Thanks for all your help x

OP posts:
angel1976 · 29/04/2012 22:34

juedanlil I think you really need to pick up the phone and call. What everyone else is suggesting is correct here: call first and then follow up/back up with emails. It is so easy (especially when they are handling so many admissions questions etc) for emails to get ignored. And if indeed an error has been made, it's best you bring it to their attention ASAP. Good luck!

prh47bridge · 29/04/2012 23:54

What I would say is something like:

In my application for a primary school place I named school X as my first preference. I was not offered a place at this school. It has come to my attention that person Y was offered a place at school X in the initial offers although they had not named this school as one of their preferences. Can you please explain how someone who did not express a preference for school X was allocated a place ahead of someone who did? I understand this should never happen.

Ringing may get things moving quickly but do as Admission suggests and either get them to confirm their response by email or email them your understanding of the conversation.

juedanlil · 30/04/2012 15:31

Thanks for your responce its all been very help full . I tried to call but they just have an answer phone on so I will email. I have also found out another parent put it as a third choice and has also obtained a place there yet it was our first choice !! It doesn't make sense to me at all .

OP posts:
clam · 30/04/2012 15:50

Them ranking it third (with you putting it first) makes no difference IF they live closer to the school than you do.

LIZS · 30/04/2012 17:38

Do those you know who have been allocated this school have a sibling link or live closer to it than you ? Putting it as first choice may not work if you live a distanme away and have no older children there. Ask LA what the furthest distance allocated was and how your home compares to it.

prh47bridge · 30/04/2012 17:51

As Clam says, you don't get any priority for naming a school as your first choice. People who have named it as second or third choice can be admitted ahead of you. However, there is no way someone who has not named the school as a preference should be admitted ahead of someone who has.

LIZS · 30/04/2012 21:03

Are you sure those you have spoken to are being entirely honest ? Hmm People can be very guarded when it comes to things like school preferences and perhaps their stories are not so reliable. tbh i think ti is very tricky to argue on the basis of anecdptal evidence so try to stay focussed on whether your dd's application has been given due consideration.

Jenny70 · 30/04/2012 21:32

I think the "we didn't put down this school" may have put it down the list, but now has either forgotton or is not meaning to be misleading, but is meaning to say it wasn't their first/second choice.

The late applicant - depends how late, and how good a spin she told the LEA.

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