KS3 and KS4 expected levels: any teachers around?

[Iamnotminterested]

I'm quite familiar with KS1 and KS2 'Expected' grades but am a bit woolly on secondary. DD1 starts secondary in September so I would just like a bit of info upfront so that I don't feel bamboozled at her first parents' evening.

Thanks.

On Mat leave at the mo, and everything is changing in my absence, but here goes.

Kids are meant to make two sublevels of progress in each year.

Generally, at least in our school, year 7 tends to go from 3 (poor), 4 (average), 5 (very good).

Level 5 is meant to equate to a C at GCSE and we tend to find that a child on level 5 in yr 7 will be a high achiever at GCse (A*/A/B).

However, we do tend to find that a child on level 5 in primary school (or even worse, a level 5 in SATS), isn't necessarily a level 5 in high school. To begin with anyway.

The high school will probably look at your dd's primary school levels and set an expected level from that.

When she gets to KS4, there will be FIsher FAMily TRust data which predicts, based on family background and primary school data, the GCSE grades she should get. The school may or may not agree with that, depending on how well she's performed in the preceeding 3 years.

Hth, because I have a feeling I've confused myself.

Thanks for the reply. Can I just ask though why a child on level 5 in primary (or even worse, a level 5 in sats), isn't necessarily a level 5 in high school?

I've found (as a parent) that Yr 7 is a funny year, and parents get a bit het up if their child who left Primary with Level 5s, isn't dipping into Level 6s. As a rule - don't expect it. My 2 older children both left Primary with L5s, but the subjects are different in secondary, and it takes them a while to adjust. I also found that some things it very much depended on what they were being taught. So, for example in Science, they used to do a 6 or 8 or 10 week block of Chemistry type Science, then change teachers and do a block of Biology type science, so your child might be really inspired by one and not the other teacher or topic and the grades tended to flit around a bit. Of course subjects they are starting new tend to be lower - eg MFLs.

To anwer your second post, becaus Primaries (well all schools) are under so much pressure to 'teach to the test' whereas the work that they are doing in Yr 7 isn't geared to 'getting as many children through the end of KS2 SATs at as high a grade as possible'.

We tend to find that sometimes the teacher levels from primary school can be a bit lenient because with the best will in the world, you can sometimes be slightly swayed by the cohort. The best child in one primary school might not be when mixed with kids from other primary school. That's why we moderate work samples - just in case people have been subconsciously giving 'nice child marks' or have a generally low ability class and are stunned by the one who seems head and shoulders better.

We also cover aspects (in ENglish) that may not have been covered in primary school, such as Media analysis and Literature analysis, so kids are coming to it completely fresh.

The SATs can be skewed by the reading test, which tends to bump marks up, so you could have a level 6 reader and level 4 writer which averages at level 5, but that child would not be operating at level 5 on a regular basis.

Iamnotinterested - the expected grade for the end of KS3 (Y9) is 1 or 2 levels above their Y6 level.

So typically kids are expected to get to a level 6 by the end of Y9. With 5 - 7 being all in the normal acceptable range.

I'm not a teacher but am a parent with DS1&2 in a secondary school of which I am a governor. Progress levels can be very confusing for parents which unfortunately leads to " a level 5 is not a level 5" type comments on this thread. Ofsted benchmark against Yr 6 SATs and secondary schools are expected to ensure at the very least 3 levels of progress (but this really is a minimum). So if your child gets 5c in the SATs then as a minimum they should get to 8c by year 11 which approximates to a lower end B in GCSEs. This is viewed as satisfactory progress (or as Ofsted would now refer to it - requires improvement). A school delivering good progress would expect a level 5c ultimately to yield a low end A. This is not an exact science and some may disagree but the bottom line is that as far as Ofsted are concerned a level 5 SAT is a level 5. Of course your child may take time to adjust to new subject areas but over the three years of KS3/4 the progress target should be above 3 levels

Asb0naut just out of curiosity what about children who arrive higher than level 5 do they plateau would you expect them to sit exams early?

For maths: In Y9 the 'expected level' (like a level 4 in primary) is about a level 6. A child who gets a level 6 should go on to get a C at GCSE. Children who get a level 5 in Y9 will likely not get a C (25% of level 5s do).

On the other hand, in English, a child who gets a level 5 in Y9 is more likely to get a C at GCSE (over 50% do).

So example targets, end of

yr6: L4b (6b)
yr7: L5c (7c)
yr8: L5a (7a)
yr9: L6b (8b)
yr10: L7c (9c)
yr11: L7a, roughly C (9a, roughly A*/A).

?