DD(9) has dyslexia but is "average" at school so intervention by them is minimal

[alison222]

What I want to know is what exactly you have found that helps?

The dx says she has significant difficulties in her auditory memory and her working memory, and that she lacks sufficient phonological awareness and has a slow speed of phonological and visual processing.

I have been reading the past thread on the boards and find lots of discussions of various programmes - but now my head hurts!

I want to do things at home that will be enjoyable and will help.

School are going to do a spelling intervention once a week and WordforWord ?? on the computer 2x a week - I know nothing about this programme.

I have bought Nessie Games and hope to use the same phonics that the school will be using in the spelling intervention to supplement it.

What else does anyone else suggest?

I have just met with the SENCO and we discussed the teacher spending time re-enforcing that the children should write what is in their minds and THEN go back to check spelling and punctuation in order that we might unlock what she is capable of and not what is being produced as she is so hung up on her handwriting/spelling etc. that she writes much more simple words so that she may have a hope of spelling them. This was on the back of me scribing for her for her homework this week. The quantum leap in standard when she didn't have to worry about spelling was unbelievable.

I am new to all of this so please treat me gently.

Dancing bears and apples and pears by sound foundation

Best intervention out there.

(ds1 is 8 and dyslexic)

Thanks Becarooo. I was looking at these.
DD's reading is quite good but her spelling is appalling. I couldn't work out if I needed to do both the spelling and the reading or to just concentrate on the spelling? I will need to do the tests with her to assess where to start though.

I can second's Becaroooo's suggestions.

My DC are younger than yours or her's but I'm dx as dyslexic as are many of my family and the school has concerns about DD1 spelling.

However as she doing well in everything else in their view, I'm not so so about reading or her hand writing, so they wont do anything till she is older and struggling more despite them saying confidence that she can do things is an huge issue for her . So I've started apples and pears as its made a massive difference to both her spelling and her automatically using correct punctuation.

www.soundfoundationsbooks.co.uk/

As spelling was area DD1 teacher was expressing concern with I just started with the apple and pears.

I may later look at the dancing bears series with DD1 - once her spelling is more where it should be though I intend to work through all the apple and pear books with her though perhaps less intensively at that point and start DS on them as soon as possible.

Also the suggestions were to get her typing so that she could do some work on a word processor with a spell check. School are saying not severe enough, but thinking of getting her to do some homework this way.

Has anyone used Nessy fingers? as this looks like it might be a bit more fun than some? If not what else have you used to teach your child to type?

If her readnig is "quite good" then def concentrate on apples and pears.

Its the best programme out there IMHO and believe me, I've tried 'em all!

I can't second all the others :)

If you want to really help your DD, then you have to correct the underlying causes you listed.

There are a wide range of therapies that address these problems. Most of them requiring daily physical activities to be done at home. Some of them suggest supplements and dietary changes.

Most of them cost lots of money and require lots of time and energy and patience.

Are you interested in stuff like that?

Also the suggestions were to get her typing so that she could do some work on a word processor with a spell check

I've never been able to work out the logic in this. If a child can't spell a word and gets it very wrong the choices the spell check gives might not even include the word she originally was trying to write! And if it is a homophonous word (bear/bare, which,/witch, where/wear etc.) how will she know which of the choices offered is the right one? You can't rely on her reading skill to tell her if a word 'looks' right. I've worked with many children who can read words fine, but who cannot 'see' that they are wrong if they are presented to them misspelled.

I would concentrate on spelling if the reading is OK; working on words and sounds will help to improve the reading anyway.

Alison222 you have found a really good method for giving your child confidence, by scribing for her. I often recommend to parents to let their child tell a story and while she's doing that record it, perhaps on your mobile phone or with a video camera. Then you can both have a go at writing the story: the child writes the words s/he can manage and the parent writes the words she can't.

After you have written the story this way you could explain some of the spellings to her like this:
Spelling the word 'could' for example, they might write 'cud'. Then you could respond with,

"That's brilliant, that's what it sounds like and now lets make it look right. You've written some of the letters."

Now spread the letters out: 'c u d' and show her how you fit the 'o' and 'l' in to make 'oul'.

Next, point to the letter, 'c' or group of letters in the case of 'oul', and then say,

"This is the sound 'c', this the sound 'u' and we write 'oul' for 'u' in this word and then finish with 'd'.

Put the word on the fridge or on a board to remind them of it later. perhaps you could let me know whether this helps or not.

Hello!

My son is nearly 9 and has just been diagnosed. We are using nessy fingers and part of DS problem is that he uses 90% brain power in holding his pencil which leaves 10% to process what he is meant to be doing. If he can learn to touch type he frees up his brain to get down what he wants to write about. Also it will be a very good skill to have.

Meboo - do you really think touch typing is going to use less of his brain power than holding a pencil?

What makes you think that?

I can only repeat what I have been told and what I have read and that is that when you have the problem that you cannot get what is in your head down on paper, in relation to dyslexia, it is because the brain is concentrating on holding the pencil (and he holds it very firmly and presses down hard, quite often breaking the lead) and pulling it across the page. It is easier if he uses a pen where the ink flows freely out of it, but touch typing would be better as there is no concentration on the writing implement.

It's an interesting theory. Not one I've heard before.

Have you got any links?

Some dyslexics have to work very hard at forming the correct letters Indigo. As described by a dyslexic child "my hand won't do what my brain is telling it to." These children find typing a whole lot easier than writing as they just have to choose the right letter, rather than concentrating on directionality of letter formation when writing.

I can believe that some children struggle to form letters, and find typing easier.

But typing certainly doesn't help all dyslexics.

Sounds like meboo's son might have various physical problems which make writing hard for him. (for example he might be holding the pen too tight because he has poor fine motor skills, or because he has poor propreception)

If he has very poor motor planning skills he might find typing as hard as writing.

Or if he has a very poor memory he might find typing harder than writing.

He might find typing easier. But equally he might not. Meboo might spend 2 years teaching him to type only to find his typed work is no better than his written work.

I think teaching him to type is a good idea. And I hope it helps him a lot. It might well do.

But she needs to keep an eye on it incase it doesn't help. There is certainly no guarantee it will help.

She could also consider talking to an OT about why he finds holding a pen so hard. It might be something very easy to sort out. (or it might not)

Probably completely irrelevant to the op but ds1 had a wedge shaped board for writing on and a rubber grip which stopped him gripping his pencil too hard. He has since taught himself to touch type (he's 16 now). His dx is ADHD but he has a degree of dyslexia.

The Apples and Pears / Dancing Bears books are good - a very systematic workbook. The Stairway to Spelling by the same people who publish Toe by Toe looks as though it has good results. It's quite complex so it may be suitable for your DD (I bought it, but have put it to one side as too much for my DD who's only7).

What we have found that really seems to be helping is EasyRead system It's expensive; £700 to do the whole course. Yes, I know! but for a lifelong skill it's worth the investment if you can afford it and it works (if you do it and it doesn't work they promise to give you your money back). It's the equivalent cost to 17 hours of tutoring in this neck of the woods which I don't think would go very far!!

Anyway it's a daily computerised system that takes 10 -15 minutes. This means the children are happy doing it and it doesn't seem like more of the schoolwork that they find really hard. It's also so short that its easy to fit into your schedule (DD does it before breakfast). The theory is that there is a visual picture clue for each sound, however it's spelt. These are introduced through games and coded reading where you have to rely on the pictures so you HAVE to just say the sounds initially without worrying about the spellings / letters that go with it. This has a fairly immediate positive affect on confidence levels ie with a word like deaf you are not left struggling with wondering if the 'ea' is making an 'ee' sound or an 'e' sound as you have the "e - egg" little picture above the word.

These kind of complex alternative sound words are introduced from fairly early on but there's no emphasis on 'tricky' words or words groups. So there are no phonetic rules to learn. eg one game you have to change a letter to make a new word "Change one letter to make the word dine into the word done" and then you have a choice. Only 3 weeks ago dd would have picked the 'u' but she picked the 'o' because it has the 'uncle' picture above it so she knows that here an o makes an u sound. It sounds as though it would be confusing with no explanation, but for her it's really working. There is a lesson sequence for spellings too but I think that the theory is that spellings will follow once the brain sequence for interpreting written words ie reading properly is re-wired. Anyway there's loads of info on their website and you can call and talk to them throughout the course. (in fact you have to check in and give feedback occasionally)

They say you should start to see an improvement in reading after 60 lessons and in spelling after 90 lessons. DD is on lesson 53 and this week she got a school award for increased fluency and self correction in reading. Obviously she's not at the end yet but her reading confidence has gone through the roof in comparison to where she was, and her spelling is already improving in leaps - she often just writes the correct way now instead of sitting pondering for ages and then writing something logical but incorrect

Sorry -long post, butI really think this is a great concept compared to the other phonic systems (Ruth Miskin etc). Of course it may nout be suitable for everyone, but it's really worth taking a look.

Also it won't 'clash' with other phonics programmes school are using. The sounds are the same, just introduced in a more subtle, subconscious way so they become instinctive.

Hi

My DD is exactly the same, we put her in private as being average in state means no help even if you have so much more potential.

Basically you have two choices, well 3 if 'do nothing' is an option.

1. Teach the child coping mechanisms which will 'help' them deal with the issues. This will not fix the problem and the child will always need to be doubling up on effort. It needs ongoing reinforcement and will not change the fundamental processing issues. These will be an ongoing problem.

1. Look into other therapies which work with the Audio aspect of the issue. Basically the sounds your child hears are not what is being said so if you say 'Go to Bed' - dd could hear 'do lo deb' as the sounds do not make sense - that is how the mind is processing the sound. DD did FastForWord and I sat with her and the above example is very real - she could not hear the sounds - she could not match 2 identical sounds. Learning reading techniques will not help that. We are in the process of sorting out AIT treatment and believe that should solve the final issues which are memory related. Her reading and writing have improved since doing FastForWord.

However the second option costs more money - but I truly believe that if you can afford it it will beneficial in the long term.

Learning to touchtype is very helpful for dyslexics but for the same reason as cursive is important. Not only because of speed so much but rather that typing and cursive work on muscle memory so correct letter combination become natural and you do not have to think about it. DD is learning to type for this reason and the fact that writing is very slow and typing would speed her notes etc up. So it helps 2 ways ...

So you can teach her to cope with her 'disability' (like hell!) or you can fix the problem.

Indigo is very knowledgeable on this - speak to her.

We know how difficult this is and hope that whatever you do you have success for you dd.

Thank you everyone you have given me a lot to think about.

I didn't also write that the suggestion re typing was to also get software that reads text back to you so that you hear if you have typed something different to what you meant as I was told that dyslexics see what they have written/typed as what is in their head not what is on the paper/screen and so find it much more difficult to proof read their work.

Interestingly when I scribed DD then copied this into her homework book. Her handwriting was hugely improved and was proper cursive joined up writing rather than the print that she usually manages if she is thinking about what she is writing. I think therefore for her there is definitely something to be said about how much brain power is used in concentrating on forming the letters. I think we will teach her to type at home and let her do homework this way sometimes after she is more familiar with the keyboard to see if it does free her brain to concentrate on the spelling and the content more.

Indigo I have read a lot of your posts about diet etc. DS (who has AS)already has a lot of food allergies and it would be very difficult to go GF too. I was interested in a thread about protein for breakfast though and may give it a go. DS already takes omega supplements (because of the allergies) so it is easy to get DD to take them too. Lets see if this also has any effect.

I was also wondering about the Behavioural Optometrist. What % of people does this help do you think? - It is probable worth an appointment to see if it will though. Can anyone give me an idea of cost?

Alison - vision problems effects about 60% of dyslexics.

However - not all behaviour optometrists are any good. The one I went to wasn't - the one MrsB went to was fab.

Here is a list of all the ones I've heard good things about over the years www.dyslexiaadvice.co.uk/vision.html

However, the place I got DDs vision therapy done was at Tinsley House.

Prices vary, but for the full treatment I would say around £1,000. (Paid over the course of the treatment which will be months to a year)

AfricanExport is of course also right, that poor auditory skills also cause dyslexia and can also be fixed.

As you know I have found that DDs dyslexia has been caused by all of the following:

• vision problems
• auditory problems
• leaky gut
• neurodevelopment problems.

We've had to fix all of them, one by one, to cure her. If your DDs dyslexia is less severe you may find she only suffers from some of those problems :)

But curing this stuff takes a lot of time, patience - and money. Probably at least 2 years to work through everything.

Can I make it clear that I have no problem with children learning to touch type. It is the belief that the spellchecker can solve all spelling problems which I think is problematical.

African Export

I am really glad to see that I am not the only person in the universe who believes in the very significant part that kinaesthetic memory plays in spelling, whether cursive or typed

MaizieD

Started life as a typist so for me it is ingrained. People are always amazed that I can type and hold a different conversation at the same time. It is simply because my fingers 'know' what they are doing. :) If asked to spell a word I often find my fingers moving along with the letters as I call them out.

African - I can type words correctly that I don't know how to spell

It's exactly like you said. My fingers know how to spell them.

There is research done at dcs school a while back that showed using a pc boosted boys spelling.
alison
My Ds is now 16 but has similar problems to your DD.
At the same age as your dd his teacher said he wrote a piece that she longed to give a level 4 to because of the vocab, imagination etc but the spelling and punctuation bought it down by 2 levels. Ds would say he couldn't concentrate on content and spelling at the same time.
He had one to one help at primary with a scheme called Stareway to Spelling and Wordwall. This bought his writing up to a level 4 (scraped by 1 mark) in his year 6 sats but his reading/comprehension was a level 5b.
When he started secondary they wrote into his IEP that he could use a pc for homework wherever practical. His thoughts do seem to flow freer when he is typing. Sometimes he can spell words three different way on the same page. He also can't always remember something from looking at the board to looking at the paper.
He is now doing his GCSEs and on target for A\A* in everything except German which hopefully will be a C, and English should be a B/A. In the last year they SENCO has got extra time for him for his exams. He gets 25% for maths based and 10% for written.
DS really blossomed in secondary school because the things he is good at ie analysis and design are recognized in Humanities, Sciences, Literature and technology.