How flexible can I expect my school to be? Returning to teaching after long term sickness

[NedSchneebly]

I have posted this in Employment too.

I am a teacher, and am currently signed off, receiving treatment for breast cancer. I was diagnosed in January, and will not realistically be back until September, with the rest of my chemo and radiotherapy to get through.

I have decided that I want to reduce my full time timetable, down to 0.8. Can I request that the 0.2 reduction is spread over 2/3 afternoons, so that I teach every morning but have time "off" in the afternoons, or can school insist that I have one full day off? Having cancer has made me reevaluate what's important and would also like to be able to pick up DS from school and have more time with him. I would get more time with him if I had 2/3 afternoons off, rather than a whole day, as he is at school.

Also, what might occupational health suggest in terms of a phased return? How does this usually work?

I have a meeting with my boss tomorrow to discuss this.

You can request what you would like, but schools should be making decisions about job sharing arrangements which work best for the children in the class in the first instance. These decisions may work with what you want, but they may not. If I'm honest, the arrangement you are suggesting sounds quite disruptive, paricularly if you factor in that during your 0.8 you will also have time out of the classroom for PPA which will be about another afternoon a week. So, in effect you would end up working 2 whole days and 3 half days, meaning that the children have a change of teacher on at least 3 days a week.

As a parent, I wouldn't be happy with this. As a teacher, I think it is quite messy too.

im going back to school after maternity leave and had requested part time but have discovered the job share person has equal rights so i could only have 2 and half days a week cos the other person would have to have the same time. also this was done on schools terms not mine. have decided to go back full time cos that wasnt enough for me.
im guessin it would the same for you?

I have a similar arrangement to this and work three full days and two half days. the school liked it very much as it means I am there for part of every day and I am seen as being more full time than those who have whole days off. I am also able to have a form group and it makes timetabling easier if I am there each day. I think if you can sell it to them in this way this will help. It will probably also be necessary for you healthwise to build up slowly and working a full day may well be exhausting. I hope it works out for you. good luck.

Thanks littlefish I definitely hear what you're saying - thanks for responding.

As my primary is linked with the secondary school next door, we use specialist secondary staff for PPA cover, so my class have a different teacher for PE, French and Technology. I guess there is more of a precedent for different teachers taking the same class over the course of the week than there might be in other primaries. I also thought it might be less disruptive to be able to do 5 mornings so that there was consistency for the core subjects? Maybe not. . .

Could my boss refuse altogether, and say I have to come back as per my full time contract?

Xpost ash and cansu thanks for replying!

cansu That was the reason I wanted to spread out time "off" to pace myself and ease myself back in after such a long time off and being pretty poorly.

ash I don't know what I would do in that situation - 2 and half days would not be enough really.

You could try going through the LEAs occupational health dept.

I had a DH that was diagnosed with ME, she had her work hours arranged through them.

The H tried to give her written warnings over her absences but they were mostly written off by the OH dept. She was very well protected.

Also,
How does your school arrange cover for PPA? - just wondering if they use a Music/sports/art specialist who could then cover your afternoons. (my last pennypinching H would have just used the class TA or a HLTA from another Yr group)

ha ha another x-post

Thanks getout do I have to contact Occ health myself, or will I see them through school?

The PPA/specialist teacher arrangement does sound like it might be more positive then Ned. It also depends how your school organises its timetable. We are encouraged to teach our core subjects throughout the day, through other subjects rather than just the mornings, so the arrangement you are suggesting would be tricky. If your school does all core subject teaching in the morning, then it may work a little more easily.

I don't know sorry - I think she went through them herself or maybe her GP??

I know it wasnt through the school because the head was not very happy about the situation.

However, different LEAs might do things differently.

Have you spoke to your union? They are usually good at this type of thing. I spoke to them when I first went part time and they were really helpful in explaining my new T&cs.

Hi Ned. I've chatted with you over on Tamoxifen in the Autumn / Winter, but I think it was under my old name, so you probably won't know me now. Anyway, I found Occupational Health not only incredibly supportive, but actually they were stunned that I was intending to go back as soon as I did and I'd not had thoughts of phased return. It was them that insisted on the phased return being put into place, and they were falling over themselves to find anything else they could do for me.
I'm not teaching in schools anymore (still work for LA) so slightly different, but I can't see why a morning / afternoon split would be a problem, but could you 'be employed' for 5 mornings + 1 afternoon, and have that afternoon as you PPA. When you work out the hours, you probably wouldn't find that was much less than 0.8 as most Primary schools I know have much longer mornings than afternoons. That would give your class consistancy throughout the week, and there are plenty of teacher out there who would be happy to do just afternoons. 1 possible objection might be attendance at staff meetings, but maybe you could do your PPA afternoon on the same day as the staff meeting ? Anther possitive you could stress would be, because you would see your job share partner every day, that would make communication excellent.
Re contacting them, my boss did it, and I had an appointment come through, after I@d phoned my boss and told her I thought I'd be ready to come back a couple of weeks later.
Oh, in retrospect, I was very pleased they made me do the phased return. Beforehand I thought it was a load of faff, but they were right and I was wrong. I was shattered (and I'd only been off 3 months and not gone through 1/2 of what you have).

Just to echo above poster, proportions of the school day are bizarrely, calculated in terms of 13ths. I think this is thirteen half hours?

Depending on your school timetable, a morning might be 7 /13ths or 8 /13ths.

(You can tell I have talked to HR once or twice :))

You can definitely request part time but school don't have to agree (I'm a secondary teacher and the head and governors have just turned down my request for 0.8) so yes, they can make you go back full time as per your contract.

I've had a member of my dept come back on phased return - it was done over a month but that was in discussion with him, the head and occupational health. You would need to ask the head what the proceedure is in your area (our OH are for all council employees but in the authority my husband teaches in they have a special teaching OH so I think it differs!).

hi BfG indeed we have chatted elsewhere - thanks for replying here. I am meeting with my boss this afternoon, and I had thought about tying the PPA time in with the afternoons as well - 3 hours PPA plus 5 hours reduction in teaching time makes 8 hours, which is 4 afternoons-worth of teaching in my school. . . 1 full day (on staff meeting day) and 4 mornings would be my ideal, I guess. Thanks for positive comments about your experience with OH - lets hope mine is as supportive! What were the hours you did on your phased return? How long did it take?

Thats interesting BranchingOut - will have to work that one out! How do break times and lunch times fit into that? Are they discounted from the hours that I work?

Sorry to hear your part time request has been turned down Pottering I will have to wait and see what my boss says this afternoon. . .

Hi Ned

My phased return I was actually embarassed about to begin with. The week I had the meeting, she said she didn't want me to do anymore that week , but I did, as I'd already arranged a meeting with a colleague who'd been covering my workload for the following morning, and she'd blocked out about 2 hours in her diary for that.
She wanted to suggest that you don't do any consecutive days to begin with. I pointed out that I only work PT anyway and she said 'so much the better'. I do 3 days a week. I managed to get her to agree to me woking those 2 mornings the 1st week.

3 mornings the 2nd.
3 x 5 hour days the 3rd, then
3 x full days, ... then it was 1/2 term and I'd booked annual leave!

But there was lots of emphasising how this wasn't set in stone and if I was tired then I should cancel appts and rest, etc.,etc, and I could review this whenever I wanted and go more slowly if I wanted.
It's different if you are in the classroom though - my current job is a lot easier more flexible than teaching, so I'm not sure how they do it in school. I presume as someone else said, most authorities would have an specialist who can suggest things.

My understanding is that Occ Hth usually deal with people who do not want to go back, or are demanding all sorts of ridiculous concessions, and they are a bit thrown when you go in expecting or wanting to get back to work

Meeting did not go well. Head big ally said she wasn't confident she would be able to accommodate me part time. . . Not a definite no, but not looking good. She said there were already several part timers and 2 returners from maternity leave who wanted to come back part time. Does anyone know if i hve th same rights as matrnity leave returners?

I don't have any other option really, as I don't think another school would touch me with a barge pole at the moment, and the jobs market round here is dire anyway. Looks like my lovely plan has gone out of the window

Sorry, that should read . . Head basically said. . Rubbish iPad and it's autocorrect!

Sorry it was rubbish in the meeting :(

My understanding is you have more right to flexible working if you have children under 5 so the maternity returnees probably would take priority.

Well surely she's got ready made jobsharers then, and a vacancy (or 2?) created. Now's the time to get in touch with your union then.
So sorry you are not being supported at this time. I have honestly had nothing but support with my team and from my manager. You are going through enough without this sort of hassle.

My interpretation is that the school has to make out a case why you can't, so, as you have a very clear suggestion of how it would all work, then it's up to them to make out a case why it shouldn't.

oh dear :(

my only other thoughts would be to try the TES forum, they might be someone there with specialist knowledge/experience that could help.

I do a rather peculiar part-time arrangement, because it works for the school and for me.

It is a jobshare BUT the same person teaches the class maths and literacy every day (bringing up standards in these two has been a BIG focus). The other subjects are shared between the jobshare partners on the basis of curriculum strengths, and we have joint PPA time. Is there any way that you can sort something like this out? For example, do you know any of the maternity leave returners? Could two of you get together and hatch a plot to basically become 'one full time equivalent' from the school's point of view but arrange the timetable to play to your strengths while showing continuity in those things which are taught every day??

A colleague of mine has just returned for long term sick and wanted a similar arrangment to you. she has been offered 5 mornings and 2 afternoons . In the mornings our yr6 will be split into 3 classes, and she will take one of these, then covering some ppa in her afternoons. Our school is in a deprived area which gets a large amount of 'pupil premium' and this kind of arrangment seems common in similar areas. Could you look in similar catchments, the pressure to get SATs results seem to mean much more 1:1 teaching opps or part timers, especially for experienced teachers.
Good luck