No real progress this year. Should I be worried?

[cotswolds84]

Ds is doing well at school. Got 3b's is KS1 sats but since than has not moved up any levels/ Should I be worries or just accect that KS1 sat figures were overstated. In year 3

They usually put what they expect him to achieve next year don't they?

If he's not meeting expected targets then yes, I'd have a question. Even if they were overstated I'd expect some discussion.

In general children should make progress every year.

Targets for the year were very wooly. At last parent's eve was told told there were no problems but I would have hoped for some progress.

Hi Cotswolds84

Mumsnet learning pages have something on 'the transition dip' here: www.mumsnet.com/learning/assessment/transition-dip

There can be a general slowing down in learning during Y3 - but I agree with LaurieFairyCake - you need to be keeping an eye on this, talking to the teachers and trying to help where you can at home to ensure that things keep progressing as you'd like.

HTH

Fab link. Thank you. Feeling alot better now.

I've not seen that learning page before - what a load of hooey!

cotswolds84 - are your ds's infant and junior schools totally separate, or the same school? Differences in assessment can occur in separate infant schools where they may not seek to moderate assessments with the junior school and are under pressure to produce good results.

If it's the same school, you need to know the reason why your ds appears not to have made any progress - this would certainly be a concern in my school.

Thanks feenie. Same school but as a lower school they obv. aren't affected by KS2 sat results. Hence why I probably suspect year 2 results may have been overstated a little.

If anything, the Y2 teacher will be more experienced and used to teacher assessment - they are moderated by the LEA and have to produce many many different forms of evidence. The Y3 teacher sounds less on the ball with assessment, especially if they can't explain why no progress has been made.

I think he has some assessments due next month. So hopefully that will show some progress. If not I think I may need to have a word.

I would, definitely. Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

If it is the same school, the KS2 results will be very much affected by the KS1 results.

Hmmm.
If you didn't have a number, "3b", would you sense in yourself that he had progressed, developed, matured, learnt new things? Do you see him being offered more challenging work, and producing better quality work than he did 9 months ago?

In years 3 and 4, children are expected to make 3 sub-levels' progress (one whole level). This means that, in either year 3 or 4, a child should make only one sub-level. Usually this ends up being year 3 due to the change of curriculum, expectations etc.

Saying that, in my school we assess year 2 differently. In maths, for example, the children are assessed on all aspects: calculating, shape, data handling etc. In year 3, we only teacher assess on calculating and problem solving. This massively skewers our results because some children are fantastic at shape but awful at number, and vice versa.

There are children in year 2 at the moment who are 3a writers, apparently. I was a bit at that. Seems exceptionally high. That teacher has decided to use a different mark scheme too, so...

Like others have said, has your DC made no actual process, or is it just sub-levels you're referring to?

Juniper - don't you have any say in how KS1 is assessing? (I take it you're a Y3/4 teacher?) Don't you moderate writing between Y2/3?

As Y6 is now reporting teacher assessment for writing, Yrs 1-6 should be assessing the same way. We are using the same grid (adapted from APP) and everyone is pretty much doing the same thing.

Yes, whole school assessment procedures need to be used by everyone, along with lots of moderation to ensure consistency.

The whole school uses APP apart from one Year 2 teacher, who is using her own system. She's the assistant head, and it seems no-one wants to pull her up on it.

Leadership moderates some writing, but they never feed back to us what they've found.

Hi Feenie/ Cotswold84:

more info on transition dip here: education.scholastic.co.uk/content/7227

I suspect like any other form of research - if you're funded to identify whether something exists you'll find it. However, Feenie - given CCs & LEAs have funded work into this, the data they hold has at least part provided evidence for a slow down in attainment at the KS1/ KS2 boundary.

The reasons for this will obviously vary by LEA/ school/ individual/ etc...

Although Feenie, you are of course perfectly entitled to believe it is all a load of 'hooey' - it is a recognised phenomenon.

HTH

I would have expected the teacher to have been alerted to this as an issue before now, and would be worried if she or he hasn't. A child making no identifiable progress for over 2 terms should have caused concern. When I worked in Year 3 my assessment co-ordinator would not have accepted citing a dubious general phenomenon as adequate for any individual child, and I wouldn't accept it from myself for any child I taught either. There may be legitimate and evidenced reasons to explain an uneven curve in your child's progress, but you need to know what they are in this specific case. You're within your rights to ask why, and my first question to myself if teaching such a child would be whether my teaching of those with higher attainment is an issue in progress slowing.

But I wouldn't worry. I've seen plenty of children flagged as progress concerns in Year 3 make 2 levels or more in KS2, and your son is performing well at school.

Correction - it WAS a recognised phenomenon, when the methods of assessing in Y2 and Y3 were totally incompatible. Historically, when Y2 were assessed by SATs only, a dip would be extremely common for that reason. Y2's tests were untimed and they could use equipment - Y3 were also traditionally only assessed using the optional SAT and very little else, and since they were timed this led to children showing dips/plateaus.

Now, since Y2 and Y3 use the same whole school assessment procedures, there is no reason for children to automatically plateau/dip simply because they are in KS2. Any Y3 teacher telling you that there is a dip, in a school where whole school assessment is as it should be, is not worth their salt, ime, and is way out of date with current assessment procedures. Try telling the SMT in a decent school that your children are not progressing because children 'dip' when they reach Y3, and see where that gets you.

All this, of course, is a completely different story in separate infant and junior schools, as I've already said on this thread.

When I worked in Year 3 my assessment co-ordinator would not have accepted citing a dubious general phenomenon as adequate for any individual child, and I wouldn't accept it from myself for any child I taught either

Well said, adelaofblois.

The only child in my year 3 class who hasn't made much progress has been through a very traumatic 6 months. Trying to get said child to stop crying and listen for 5 minutes is a lot of effort at the moment. I would expect all children, without major life traumas, to make significant progress. Maybe not a jump of levels and levels, but progress nonetheless.