where to get official guidance on catholic school appeal criteria?

[krisskross]

hi
we did not get our chosen place at local RC school (we are practicising RC, it came down to distance).

We are considerinng our chances of appeal. There is lots of useful info on mumsnet but can anyone provide links to official guidance on the appeal process for faith schools so that we can consider every avenue beofre we decide? Some threads say that you can only appeal on maladmin by the LEA because of class size rules. Can you appeal on medical/ social grounds?

Is it worth paying the money for someone to write if for you?

Thanks

Hiya

Sorry to hear you lost out :(

I'm certainly no expert but didn't want to leave your post unanswered.

With regards to an appeal, you need to consider if its infant class size. Unfortunately if its infant class size (classes made up of 30, 60 etc) then you can only win if you can show a mistake was made. All i can tell you is what happened to someone i know last year. She was also a parish catholic and lost out on distance at the RC school. She had one in the feeder high school, one in the primary already but lost out on her 3rd child by distance! She was the only parish applicant not to get in and she had 2 siblings! (there was no siblings priority).

In the end she appealed (spent 2k getting lawyers etc) and she still lost.

Some experts will come along to clarify the position on social needs etc but i think you can only appeal on those grounds if you submitted expert evidence with your application which they did not allocate you on.

If its not infant class size you have more of a chance.

What did the letter say? Does the distance look correct etc?

Just re-read my post and it sounds so negative - sorry, just wanted to make it clear that spending loads of money on lawyers etc won't help if your case is weak anyway :(

The appeal process for faith schools is the same as for any other school. Everything that has been said on here about appeals applies equally to faith schools. As Sunnyday123 says, if it is infant class size appeal you can only win if there has been a mistake by the LA or the school and you should have got a place. The only way social/medical needs work is if the school has a category for that and you submitted evidence that should have put your child in that category but they put you in a lower category. Having said that, don't be put off. You may get a sympathetic panel who will admit your child even though they shouldn't. Equally it is possible that information will emerge during the hearing to show a mistake has been made. But be realistic about your chances.

If it is not an infant class size appeal you will have a better chance of success. Social/medical needs may then make a good case depending on the details.

If you want to use social/medical needs you should try to get independent expert evidence from someone who knows your child and is willing to say that in their opinion he/she needs to go to your preferred school.

thanks to you both, that is helpful.

Apologies for sounding dim- it is an infant class size issue as school is 2 form entry- 60 children and i guess we are no. 63 and i do not believe any mistake has been made.

However, what i am asking is- is it now possible to appeal on medical / social grounds despite us not previously sending this info in? Or, when it is a multiple of 30 intake can you only ever appeal on mistakes being made.

thanks again everyone.

If they didn't have the information, then they cannot have acted on it when processing the original application so this won't show that an error was made.

What it might do is qualify you now under the social/ medical need criteria (if there is one) and that might move you up the waiting list. Or you might get that sympathetic panel who will admit even when they shouldn't.

thanks edith. we have been pretty dim not to put it down, as we assumed (!) that we would get one of the schools within walking distance, we didnt and now regret that we did not tell them. we will know next time!!!

will look at their criteria. thanks.

the appeals code is here - all schools (in England) follow the same code.

With an intake of 60 it will be an infant class size appeal. (There is a section in the code on these appeals)

First question - is there a social/medical criterion in the admissions criteria? (not all schools have this category)

Second question - did you submit evidence of social/medical need with your application? (would need to be from a professional - doctor, psychologist, social worker etc - who gives a "in my professional opinion X needs to go to this school because..." type statement)

If there is no social/medical category or there is and you didn't submit evidence with your application, then your chances of winning an appeal are slim as you can only win an ICS appeal of there was an error made or the admissions authority's decision not to admit was "unreasonable". It's always worth appealing though, as occasionally an appeals panel will admit, regardless of what they actually should do.

If there is a social/medical category and you didn't submit evidence with your application, submit it now as it could move you up the waiting list.

betsy this is really really helpful thank you.

There is medical/ social criteria in the admissions code but stupidly we did not submit it at the time of application.

Can I ask Betsy- should we submit it right now- ie as additional info rather than an appeal and if so, presumably that goes to headteacher (its an RC school), or, should we hold fire now and send it as official appeal.

Thanks so much for your help.

got to sign off now as children becoming feral but betsy if you can spare a mo to answer those questions i would be really grateful
!

I would certainly submit your evidence of medical/social needs to the school and ask them to consider if that affects your position on the waiting list. The panel cannot decide to move you up the waiting list. They can only decide whether or not to appeal.

As you didn't submit the evidence when you applied initially your chances of success at appeal are limited but you never know what might happen. Unexpected information may come out in the hearing or, as Betsy says, you may get a sympathetic panel who will bend the rules for you.

thanks bridge thats helpful too. in your first paragraph you said the panel cannot move you up the list, they can only decide whether or not to appeal. Prob being dim- did you mean the appeal panel can only decide on the outcome of the appeal not your waiting list place. ?

Thansk

The appeal panel will only consider the circumstances of the appeal, they will not consider the situation around your medical needs.
The medical needs issue needs to be referred to the admission people at the LA as they are the only people who can put you in that category. I suspect that unless the medical evidence is overwhelming that they will not agree to putting you in this category but different LAs seem to have different levels of need for this category. If granted it will only apply to where you are on the waiting list, but obviously being higher up the list is potentially of help when places become available.
From you posts I am not sure on what grounds you could appeal for a place. It is going to be an infant class size case, so effectively it is whether a mistake was made, which you seem to think was not the case and you cannot bring in medical evidence that the admission authority had no idea existed at the point that places were allocated. That should not necessarily stop you appealing because it is probable that only by getting all the admission information will you know for absolute certainty that no mistake was made.

thanks- so does that mean then that i cannot now appeal to say there is medical evidence? Only if a mistake was made by them?

Also- as its an RC school- i understood the appeal went direct to the school. is that not the case?

You should certainly include the medical evidence in with your appeal, but the appeals panel will be asking "based on the info they had at the time did the admissions authority make a reasonable decision?" If they didn't know about the medical grounds then quite reasonably they didn't put you in that category! As PRH says you just might get a sympathetic panel who will bend the rules for you.

VA schools are "responsible" for doing their own appeals, but in practice (in my area anyway) they subscribe to the LA appeals service, so in effect they pay the LA`to do it for them. The letter you get about your school place & the right to appeal will tell you where to send the stuff to.

To answer your earlier question to me - which has been covered in other posts, but just to be clear - submit your medical evidence before the appeal as well, to see if it will move you up the waiting list - the sooner the better, then if places become free you will be higher up the list if you are moved into the medical category. (Waiting lists are held in admissions critertia order.)

(The appeals panel will not look at or change your waiting list position, it's not part of their remit.)

thank you. that is very clear.

can i ask one more question pls- we have until 2 May to accept / reject places and then there may be a bit of movement . If I submit medical evidence before then, can our place on waiting list change before that date? Just wondering as i assumed this two weeks was kind of frozen.

Thanks again everyone.

Yes it can in theory. It may, of course, take them until after 2nd May to assess your evidence and decide whether or not to move your child up the list. So the sooner you get it in the better.

thanks again for all this advice, really helpful.

one more thing.....
GP has agreed to write a letter outlining the medical issue which is great.

I am a bit confused though, as i called the school today. I spoke to the same woman as last week - she told me today that when everyone accepts/ rejects there places next week there will not be any movement until the governors meet again after June half term to discuss waiting list etc. She also told me that it was unlikely they would consider my medical info and whether that moves DS up waiting list.

However, the priest told me yesterday the governors (which includes him)- would consider this info when they meet.

So my questions are

1. can there be any change in waiting list places before the governors meet in June?
2. if i send my medical info in now will they consider it before giving out any places that may become available?
3. if places become available next week can they give them to people on the waiting list before the governors meet?

Thanks all again so much.

They should consider your medical information before making any offers off the waitnig list. If they do not and a place is offered to someone else you can appeal on the basis that the place should have been yours.

thats great to know bridge. thanks for all your help. it has really clarified things for us.

I agree. If anyone on the waiting list appeals on the basis of this delay the school will have to show that each place was allocated to the person who would have been top of the list at the time the place became free. That would be a nightmare.

I think you should contact the LA and tell them that the school is behaving in this way. If that doesn't produce any results you could refer them to the Schools Adjudicator over this delay. That won't get your child a place but it should remind the governors of their responsibilities.

I am totally confused now! I am not sure if its me being dim or the woman giving me conflicting info.
First time I spoke to her she said to call back on 3 May to see if there has been any movement.

Second time I spoke to her she said they will not consider our medical info til the governors meet in June. And i thought (but could be wrong) that she said that no places that come free now will be allocated until the governors meet in June.

So- we should be able to send the medical info in this week. If the governors dont meet til June and they have to consider this info before allocating places from the waiting list, what happens now.

If you were me, what would you do now? Are you certain bridge that they have to look at this new info before allocating places? Thats what the priest told me on Sunday but seems to contradict the info in the last two posts.

Also, if the governors arent meeting til June, who manages the waiting list? I feel a little anxious that this could all depend on the admin person.

Would be very grateful if you could advise me on what to do next.

ps the LA pretty much says nothing about voluntary aided schools and has told me its all organised by the school. pah!

Send in your medical information. If they allocate any places off the waiting list before they consider your medical information you should appeal. If they wait until June before considering your information and allocate places to other people in the meantime you would have a very strong argument that this was maladministration in my view.