Behaviour expectations at school

[crazygracieuk]

Ds1 is currently 11 years old and in y6.

He has a sister in y4 and a brother in y1.

We have always been told that his behaviour at school is excellent. He has lots of friends, doing well academically and his teachers are always singing his praises. His behaviour at home since juniors has been quite angry and sullen.

After a chat with him about something else he admitted that he gets told off most days for not listening and being rude to the teacher. He admits that he's even sworn at her before. (This is all problem behaviour that he exhibits at home) He says that his name is "on the board" most days. That's one stage before being sent out to see the head! He says that he gets away with a lot of bad behaviour as there are 2 adults looking after 30+ kids.

His teachers always sing his praises at Parent's Evening and make out that he's a model student. Why won't they tell me the truth? I've spent years trying to sort out all the low level stuff that he's getting told off for at school. I've felt like I'm an inadequate mum, gone on parenting courses, read books- all because I thought there was something wrong with me or the home environment.

His teacher have varied in experience. (Less than 5 years as a teacher right through to 20+ years of experience)

Is "His behaviour is fine." like "His work is fine." and teacher speak? Have I spent 6 years misinterpreting the teacher?

Maybe his behaviour at school is fine?

Maybe he's not telling you the truth when he says otherwise?

Who do you believe - your son or his teachers?

Crazy - this is totally my experience. My kids get away with blue murder at school, and school think they're fine.

I was watching the nativity play. My DS2 was the only child who was unable to sit still. He was really playing up.

I said to his teacher afterwards, that DS2 was struggling to sit still, and she said 'they all struggle to sit still at that age (8!)'. But I saw it. He was the only one who couldn't sit still.

I know DS2 has problems at school, but they won't admit it or don't see it.

So I think it's very likely your DS was telling you the truth and that the teachers just didn't feel like bringing it up at parents eve. It's teacher speak for 'he doesn't throw chairs'

Hi, am wondering if the teacher view is positive because after he has been reprimanded he learns from it and doesn't keep doing the same thing wrong.

For example could he tell you what happend after he swore ? presumably the teacher noticed and gave some sort of penalty but what happend after that ?
Probably he didn't swear again, therefore teacher would see his behaviour as fine because he had learnt to control that impulse.

There are hundreds of behaviours that aren't conducive to classroom learning and some children have to learn these one by one almost - or in small sets, to help reduce the number he has to plod through it might help to group things with him, for example list together say 10 swear words that must not be used, reward him for getting through a week without using them, then build on the next 10, or list sullen/rude prahses in a group of five with him, practice alternatives and reward him for times he went to say something then changed it to something nicer.
Once he starts to have success it will quickly translate into praise in the classroom.

Thanks titchy. It was only him and me in the room so I can't imagine him making it up.

Indigobell- One of the boys in his class was excluded recently and another has been on behavioural report multiple times so I know that my son's behaviour is not the worst in the class. How do you deal with the fact that the school says that he's ok when he's not?

I'm concerned that he's getting away with it at school.It might be low level compared to the children who throw chairs etc but it makes home life really difficult.

I naively thought that school would tell me! I'm really annoyed and wondering how do I find out if my other children are like that at school?

Ds1 (Y1 and 6 in August) is a wriggly one and his teacher told me that she uses a cue card when he is being wriggly. She said that he is not the only wriggly one and that it doesn't disrupt others or affect his work but I can't help but wonder if this is true now. Sigh...

RosemaryandThyme- I know that he swears like a trooper when he's just with mates. I hate it but realistically I can only tell him off if he does it within earshot. If I hear his friends do it I ask them to stop too. They are happy to not swear within my hearing so I think that they understand that it's totally unacceptable. I can honestly say that I have never sworn out loud in front of my kids. I have explained to ds1 that in my head I am swearing lots but there are more healthy ways to express anger and frustration. Ds1 has sworn at me multiple times. (probably more than 100 times) Over the years it has decreased a lot but he still does it sometimes.

I naively thought that he was being respectful to adults at school so his swearing, anger and sulleness was a result of how I talked to him or something else I was (or wasn't) doing. I have racked my brains, read books, been on courses and asked teachers for advice on subjects like how to talk to children but it turns out that I had an inaccurate picture of how things are.

I am angry that ok means "not the worst" and I can't help but wonder if the school are biding time because he'll be leaving in July or that his academic results (level 5s etc) are more important to the school than how he behaves as there is no way to measure behaviour when it's not as extreme as exclusions.

You're exactly right. OK means 'not the worst'. :(

Hopefully secondary school will be more strict? If he's doing well academically maybe he'll be in good sets where this kind of behaviour isn't tolerated? (ie maybe he'll be the worst in the class, so they'll act on it)?

As for you little one, now you'll know exactly what to ask at every parent's evening. Does he sit still? Does he swear? Does he XXXX? It's much harder for them to fob you off if you ask specific questions.

His current school has 32 in the year. His next school has 240. I fear that his low level bad behaviour will seem even less significant at a big school but maybe the teachers at his new school will be less tolerant of immature behaviour?

I would love to hear the truth from his school and work with them on a solution. He is at school for over 30 hours a week so I need them to be on side really.

Thanks for the advice about specific questions. I can't believe that my oldest is in y6 and I still can't get the information I want from parent's evenings.

There might be 240 in the year - but they'll still only be 30 or so in his class.

And if he's in one of the top sets, he could well be the worst behaved out of the 30 kids in his class - so therefore the teacher is a lot less likely to tolerate it.

Off the wall suggestion here but is it possible that your children have not experianced an adult very anry and loudly swearing at them ?

I only wonder because if you and family / teachers / sports leaders etc don't swear and loose it from time to time, sometimes children don't realise the impact they are having, particularly if their friends laugh and joke about whilst using swear words casually/socially.

It might sound odd but I do think there is value in parents letting rip with a torrent of verbal assult once in a while.

Indigobell- You're right. I am hoping that secondary school will provide the right kind of changes.

RosemaryandThyme- I don't swear but I definitely shout when angry. I don't go as far as chucking or smashing things so my version of letting rip is purely verbal. Ds1 becomes angry when he is sworn at by friends in an argument so I think he understands that calling someone a bitch/cunt etc is totally wrong.

Thank you both for your advice. His behaviour problems at home have been going on for so long that I may have lost perspective so it's good to have experienced and new eyes looking at the problem differently.

I don't think you should blame yourself at all, it does to be honest sound like a peer thing and a bit of boundary testing, does he have a group of friends outside of school (footie team, scouts, cousins) that generally don't swear, or older friends that can model good negotiation skills ?
Being quite bright he might simply of had enough of primary.

Somebody else suggested to me that it might be y6 cockiness that older children at secondary won't tolerate.

You're right- he's always been a boundary tester even though our expectations are quite straightforward like the school's- treat possessions with respect, speak respectfully to people etc.

Crazy - I've PM'd you.

The Y6 argument would only make sense if you feel his behaviour his changed. But you're saying it's always been like this.......