I feel this is VERY wrong, but am I just being PFB?

[cobwebthegrey]

Ok, so we went to dd's parents evening knowing that she was probably ok in literacy and reading but worried about her maths in comparison to her peers.

The school operates mixed classes, so y1 and y2 in together. Dd was saying she was being taught maths with the y1 kids and just waited to be with her year2 classmates so she could 'feel important like the others'...she is quite distressed about this, and I can see it is causing her confidence issues, which i raised tonight.

Her teacher tells me DD is not taught with the y1's BUT at the beginning of the class the majority of Y2 pupils are separated and go though some questions with the teacher to get them up to speed with what they are doing...

Surely this is only going to further distance my DD from the level of maths her classmates are doing? by separating them isn't the teacher effectively excluding the 'less capable' kids from being able go progress with their peers. she said she does this as it would be unfair to the children who were able to do the maths not to do so...but what about DD and the other poor kids who are not yet at the same level. surely at six and seven the difference in ability is still fairly widespread!?

I feel that if anyone is deserving of extra time with the teacher it is surely those who are not quite keeping up...

Any teachers out there that can help me come to perms with how this could possibly be good for DD.

Fwiw on our request the teacher is going to spend 5 minutes on a Monday morning letting me know what they are covering each week so I can support dd's learning. I feel this is a cop out on her behalf. I also feel very pissed of for DD, who is I would say averagely intelligent and I am surprised she is struggling tbh. When we cover maths problems together she seems eminently capable to me!

Am pissed off too that this has only just been adressed bearing in mind they will be doing SATS this term. is this as crap as I think, or am I being pfb?

Just to make it clear, it is the MORE advanced pupils who go off with the teacher at the beginning of the lesson...

Chill out!!

The teacher is trained and has at least 30 children to teach ....your dd would find it a lot harder to be set maths work she simply couldnt do,the teacher by spending time at the beginning of the lesson is guiding independent/confident learners freeing her up to spend time with the children that need more support,if your dd was in need she would be allocated some funding to 'pull her up' as it is your doing the right thing supporting her at home,make maths fun and include number skills in everyday life but dont get het up about it.

Children really cant be good at everything.

What Nicks said.
I would assume your dd is being taught with other children who are working at the same sort of level she is working at - ie, the best level for her. It won't do her confidence any good to be not understanding/keeping up with some children who are currently working a little ahead of her understanding/speed.

BUT at the beginning of the class the majority of Y2 pupils are separated and go though some questions with the teacher to get them up to speed with what they are doing...

This sounds like the children are being given extra help to enable them to do the work with the rest of the class.

I teach a mixed yr 1/2 class I am lucky to have a full time HLTA so for maths I split the class I teach the yr 2 and my TA teaches the yr 1. I have 3 yr 2 children who are struggling so they work in the yr 1 group, they love the fact they have been specially chosen to "help" the younger children. Their confidence has increased so much because they are now able to do the work not struggling with work that was too difficult.
It is important that your child is in a group suitable for her ability, that is why work is differentiated according to ability not age or year group.

Thanks Nicks, I hadn't thought about it from the 'getting the more able ones started on their own' perspective, this is why I love MN!

TBh I only worry about it because at home, DD does seem pretty capable at maths. Where she struggles sometimes is in understanding exactly what she is being asked to do...she's a very literal child. Tonight the teacher gave us an eg of one of the questions she struggled with in today's class...

On anumber square she was told to round UP to the nearest number in 10's...the number 40 is physically directly above the number 50, so when given 48 as a number she said it should go to 40, because it was above the 48. Now when the teacher was explaining it to us this afternoon she didn't know this, or why dd was struggling with a relativeky simple concept...couldn't and neither could I, till I came home and we printed a number square and I could see her going UP to 40 with her finger. As soon as I had explained to her what the teacher actually meant she could do any question of that type that I asked.

Adore, you should like a fab teacher, and if DD was in your class she'd love to 'help out' the younger kids, but this is not the way it is sold to her afaik!

You SOUND like a fab teacher. Sorry, tired and typing on iPad!

I agree btw, she should certainly NOT be presented with work that is too hard for her...I don't care if she's not great at maths, I just hate to see her confidence knocked because she perceives she is 'not good' at maths.

This is a fundamental problem with schools, IMO - you can't escape it as there is no way around it within the school system as it stands. She sounds like she's doing absolutely fine, it's just unfortunate for her that there are children in the class who are working ahead of where she is. We all learn different things at different rates, or pick up on things more easily than other things, this is fine - but in a school environment those differences are highlighted (however they dress up groups with neutral names, etc) and bias is put on certain subjects, so children feel a disproportionate loss of self-confidence if they perceive themselves as "bad at" maths, for example, as opposed to art, or sports.

It's rubbish, because it can really put children off subjects, or disillusion them, to see that other children are further ahead than them. But being slightly (even a fair bit) behind someone else at the age of seven is really irrelevant - if you think back to when she was learning to sit, walk, talk, the speed at which they pick up the skill is not at all related to how talented they are at it when they get older. The sporty children are not necessarily the ones who walked first, etc, and it's the same with skills learned in childhood applied in adulthood. Of course there will always be some people who have a natural talent and are outstanding in a certain area from the start, but slow learners can also prove to be gifted, they just take longer to get there.

I think it's a shame that children end up judging themselves this way and putting themselves in boxes, "I am good at music but bad at science," for example, at such a young age, and a real shame if they are turned off from a particular subject just because they weren't at the stage that some of the others were at. I wish there was more emphasis on the fact that everyone develops skills at their own pace and that being faster at picking up on certain things doesn't make you "cleverer" than someone else.

My DS is in school, BTW, so I am not saying pull her out immediately and home educate, but I am uncomfortable with some of the processes of schools. I wish there were more options available for our children.

I think it's a shame that children end up judging themselves this way and putting themselves in boxes, "I am good at music but bad at science," for example, at such a young age, and a real shame if they are turned off from a particular subject just because they weren't at the stage that some of the others were at. I wish there was more emphasis on the fact that everyone develops skills at their own pace and that being faster at picking up on certain things doesn't make you "cleverer" than someone else.

This is precicely it BertieBotts! DD is also one of the youngest in her class, and an eldest sibling, in a class of mostly older second children. It's a bummer. We are going to do extra with her, but not too much and hopefully in enough of a fun way that she is not out off maths for life!

Thank you I do try.

I understand your feelings my dd was in yr 6 when she told us that she didn't understand maths and when she asked for help the teacher told her to sit down he hadn't got time to help. To my regret I didn't take her seriously at first. Eventually I spoke to the teacher who admitted he had said this, he actually told me I am not here to explain to her I have paper work to do. Obviously we made a complaint and he was given a warning and training, although I know he continued to be a terrible teacher.

The effect on my daughter was devastating her confidence was rock bottom, luckily this was at the end of yr 6 and a few weeks later she started secondary school where she had the most wonderful maths teacher. We went to see her and explained what had happened her solution (which worried us at first) was to give dd extra help at lunchtimes, taking her back to infant level work that she could do easily increasing her confidence. As I said I was worried about this but the teacher asked us to trust her and even said I guaranttee dd will get an A in her gcse this was in yr 7. Thank goodness for that teacher she did exactly what she said and yes dd did get an A.
If you continue to be concerned speak to the teacher if you are not happy with the response see the head, don't be fobbed off.

I think i also feel that dd's teacher has definite preference for certain kids, looking around at the dozen or so display boards of kids work tonight I saw the same 4 or 5 names on every single board...DD had two pieces up. On one of them there was only one child whose work was missing you guessed it...DD. She was also one of only two who didn't get to read out in the last two special assemblies :o( How can a child fail to feel part of a class if they are sidelined?

Thanks adore, x posts. she is changing class at the end of this year so we have decided WE will give her the extra she needs, I know the next teacher has very different methods and is much more highly respected. Am so pleased your dd's situation worked out ok!

Guarantee sorry tired.

That should have been a :o( not a grin. I think i need sleep. thanks all for your points of view tonight!

Oh bloody hell, a frown!!

I get where you are coming from OP. Some children are not suited at primary level to being streamed on ability. It triggers a lot of self esteem/belief issues that are then thought of as being fixed when actually they sometimes just develop at different speeds.

Unfortunately in large classes it is seen as the best way of dividing the workload between teachers/TAs.

My eldest recently moved to an independent school where no one is put in sets and everyone spends time in the additional needs room for whatever reason. So no one is ever singled out as receiving different treatment. However this is achievable because of the small class sizes.

My only advice would be to try boosting your DDs confidence at home with practice or booster classes in maths.