Primary school catchment - error in measuring distance?

[screamingtheplacedown]

DD has just been turned down for our first choice school (and offered a place at a poor school that is miles from home). The catchment area for the good school is 0.18 miles this year as it is very popular, and there is a record number of siblings this year. We live 0.183 miles from the school, so as you can imagine we are absolutely gutted.

My question is this: some near neighbours have been offered a place, and I am convinced (after some comical sessions with an OS map and a ribbon) that we are actually closer to the school gate, as the crow flies. Does anyone know how schools measure distance and has anyone successfully appealed on the grounds of inaccurate measurement? How did you gather the evidence for your appeal? (surely it ain't the ribbon method!)

By the way I absolutely HATE how this admissions system is making me so suspicious and envious of my neighbours who are lovely people and deserve the place just as much as we do, it's horrible!

The admissions policy will tell you how they measure distance - it could be as the crow flies, or it could be safest walking distance (which may or may not be the same route you would take - they may exclude unlit footpaths, for example).

They will then have sophisticated computer programmes to work out the exact distance - your map and ribbon are far too vague I'm afraid! My LEA (surrey) has put a map tool online so you can put in your address and it will tell you how far you are from every school - does your LEA have anything similar?

I think they have a complex tracking system - must be pretty accurate because they have plenty of people looking to find fault with it.
But on the bright side, if you're that close to the cut-off point, you must be pretty near the top of the waiting list for the school. Is it one-form or two-form entry. If the latter, there's more scope for movement.
I remember our local school a few years back had 22 siblings out of 30 places!

Our LEA measures shortest walking distance rather than as the crow flies. Best check with your LEA.

Ours used to measure walking distance, but was so inundated every year with people citing previously unknown footpaths and shortcuts and so forth, with the associated arguments about whether they were paved or appropriately lit etc... that they ditched it in favour of as the crow flies. Less room for argument.

Hi, thank you both. PatriciaHolm, the LEA website says they measure in a straight line. And I can't see that neighbours could be closer than us by that measure. There's no system online that's available to us as far as I can see, but I'm going to call them tomorrow and ask them to double check.

Clam, it's 1.5 form entry. And yes hopefully we are close to the top of the list. - but then again presumably there will be people all round the perimeter of the catchment area, not just on our side of it iyswim!

Your neighbours could have got in under another category of course eg SEN which you may not be aware of. Tbh they are unlikely to be wrong - normally they use a datum point of an address which is the middle of the house to the nearest school gate.

They should be using a computer system that can give a very accurate measurement. Unless they have got the position of your house wrong (unlikely but not impossible) the measurement is likely to be correct. You will have a hard time convincing any appeal panel otherwise. As titchy says, it is possible that your neighbours could fall in a higher admission category such as having a sibling at the school, special medical needs or SEN.

Titchy - good point. I hadn't thought of the SEN thing, and it's not any of my business :(

Most LEAs use a computer package that measures from a fixed point on the school (often the gate) to a fixed point on eacah address. By all means ask the LEA to confirm your home-school measurement and the distance at which the last place was awarded, but DIY measurement with a ribbon and a map won't count for anything.

I suppose you could ask that you are aware that other people who live very close to you but further away from the school have got places, is it because they have been admitted under a different category - presumably then they are not disclosing confidential information to you?

I do know last year a mistake on school allocation places was made for reception - they got allocated their 2nd choice somehow so they got in on appeal.

PanelChair, I know the ribbon method isn't going to stand up at appeal, but does anyone know of a better way to do it? Sure the LEA computerised systems are very accurate, but surely they may sometimes go wrong? Neighbours house is about 10 metres from ours going the opposite direction from the school!
Thank you everyone for your help x

The reason these computer packages are so widespread is because LEAs do regard them as the most reliable. With the appeal papers, all the LEAs I've worked with will supply a map, showing your home and the distance to school. You could request that now, to double-check that they have used your home and not (say) a house with a similar number.

And, as before, don't forget that your neighbour's child may have been admitted under some other category.

And they may not be measuring to the school gate. They may measure to another part of the school grounds, something barmy like the headteacher's office or the centre of the site. So worth checking that too.

You do need to get confirmation from the LA of where they are measuring on your house (it is usually the datum point for the house as per Ordnance Survey maps) and the school. The school will either be the datum point of the school, which is the safest way of doing it or it could be the front entrance or the nearest entrance to the school, which of course opens up a small element of potential for an error.
The computer programs can be used to measure down to centimetres if required, so they are very accurate.
The most likely explanation as others have pointed out is that your neighbour has got in under a different admission category.
However given how close you are to being admitted under distance (0.003 miles) I would definitely appeal simply on the basis of a mistake possibly having been made, but accepting it will probably be unsuccessful and you need to have PLan B.

Sorry to jump on your thread Screaming - but can I just ask the admissions experts how often the LA's update their software?

I ask as we're awaiting the result of DD's Junior School application (out on Monday) and our first choice is not the linked Junior school but another across town - in fact I don't think we could get much further away - but our house is only a couple of years old and I have seen some maps that don't have our little close on it - only the field that used to be here!

It all depends, Dizzyday07. LEAs try to keep the software up to date but it's a never-ending task.

If it looks like being an issue, ask the LEA to confirm that your road is on the software. I have heard appeals where the home turns out to be invisible to the software - not on the map at all - and we have had to adjourn for the LEA to add the home.

Thank you Panel. Fingers crossed it won't be an issue but it will be something I ask clarification on should I need to

The newer the home generally the more chance that there is an issue with the measurements.
As PanelChair says there are cases where the distance is not measured. If they are using the Ordnance survey computerised system then it is possible to create a new datum point and therefore get an accurate measurement for new houses.

Yes, that's what happened in the appeal I'm thinking of.

one authority I looked at measured to the main entrance to the school.

There's no rule that says it has to be the school gate, or the headteacher's office or any of the other points that might be used. It is essential, though, that the measurement is always taken from the same point.

There are occasional stupidities over where the school measurement is from, especially if it says in the admission criteria the nearest school entrance. That can cause problems as there is the possibility of a substantial difference in distance under those circumstances. It is important to look very carefully at what it says in the admission book of the LA and how that applies to the school you prefer.

Does anyone have any advice on appealing about shortest suitable walking route in rural areas? There is no walking route from our home ... National speed limit, unlit, narrow country lane. There are footpaths over farmers fields which would put us closer than others who got a place, however, by road we are well out of distance admitted. Wondering if to appeal as no suitable walking route which they calculate on?

Are they public footpaths? What exactly do the admission criteria say about the walking route? Do they, for example, specify that the paths must be lit? It may help if you can identify the LA concerned. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to identify it publicly.

Confusedrural, I hate these kind of problems at appeal hearings. It is all down to the admission authority not being specific enough about what they really mean. Normally "suitable" means by road and on a pavement. But if there is no pavement and there is a perfectly legitimate path that is shorter distance that is where it gets really difficult.
It absolutely depends on what the admission criteria says and even more importantly what the LA say at appeal that they are actually doing, as sometimes you find out the LA are taking certain things and interpreting them in a specific way, which is completely open to different interpretations.
Is the school a community school or a faith school with its own admission policy?