Will I able to win an appeal???

[Sandra1312]

Hi. Today we got result for reception class application. We didn't get our first choice. We don't live in the parish of the school , and we go another local Anglican church, but we live just 3 mins away from that school. We meet all the other criteria. My DS is baptised, we regularly go to church for more than 2 years. We do some voluntary work there. I know few people who is in our category but live much further than we are and they took place. I should mention that they go to nursery in the same school. But we didn't apply for a nursery place there. Anyway, admissions criteria stated that going to nursery doesn't affect reception class application. So, I don't know why they didn't accept us. Why they discriminate against our child. We are going to appeal. Do we have chance to win? Should we hire lawyer or someone else to help us?

You have very little chance of winning an appeal for an Infant school, a lawyer will not help at all.
What are the admissions criteria?
Do you friends live in the Parish? Go to the named Church? Have older children? Have a statement of special needs?
Have you requested to be put on the waiting list?
Have you accepted any school offered, do or the LA is not required to find you a place.

You say that the school has discriminated against your child. That seems unlikely, unless the admissions criteria have been wrongly applied or are grossly unfair.

What are the admissions criteria for the school? Do they put children in the parish ahead of children outside the parish? Do they put children who attend the parish church ahead of children who attend other churches? If so, that is likely to put you in one of the lower admissions categories and - especially if this is a small school - they are quite likely to have filled all their places with siblings and others in higher admissions categories.

You need to begin by checking

1. why you did not get a place (the letter from the LEA should tell you this)

1. whether your application was considered correctly - were you placed in the correct admissions category?

If there has been an error which has deprived your child of a place, then (as SchoolsNightmare says) the LEA should give you the place now (although many insist that you go through an appeal anyway). Otherwise, you can appeal. Generally at any admission appeal, parents have to convince the panel that the 'prejudice' (ie disadvantage) to their child in not attending the school is greater than the prejudice to the school in admitting one more pupil.

However, if the school admits in multiples of 30 (ie 15, 30, 45, 60 etc etc) then it would be an infant class size appeal. Because infant classes are limited by law to 30 pupils, the only grounds for winning an ICS appeal are if there has been an error which deprived the child of the place, if the admission arrangements are contrary to law or the admissions code or if the decision to refuse a place was so unreasonable that it cannot be allowed to stand.

If yours is likely to be an ICS appeal, it would be rash to bank on winning it. You may get a place through the waiting list but you need to identify a fallback option (another school or home education).

A lawyer will charge you a lot of money for advice that you can get from Mumsnet!

Mummytime,
Admissions criteria
A. Looked after children of Church of England families
B. Baptised children resident within parish who attend their church
C. Baptised children outside of Parish who attend their church
D. Baptised children within parish who attend another church
E. Baptised children outside of parish who attend another church of England
F. Baptised children

For each criteria tiebreaker rule is distance.

So we are under "E"category aswell as some families who got place (I know at least 4 families who took place in this category). They do not have older children (anyway siblings in category "I"). They don't have statement of special needs. We got place in our second choice. But our second choice is 15 min away. And not as good as first one.

According to the Google map we are living 0.1 mile - 3 mins away. I don't think anyone lives as close as we do. We just live other side of the road.

SchoolsNightmare, Yes I gave them everything what they asked for (baptism certificate, supplimentary form filled by vicar).
Walking distance is 0.1 mile according to the Google map.

Thank you for your advice, I definately will appeal.

PanelChair, thank you for advice. I know in appeals panel will be about 4-5 people with who I should present my appeal. I think they will try do not offer me place. They know the school appeals process better than me and I am not a confident speaker. This is why I was thinking to find someone to help me there.

SchoolsNightmare, How can I find out if there is any mistake? Should I go direct to school tomorrow or should I officially start appeal process?

So, as I thought, your living outside the parish and attending another church puts you in a lower admissions priority (the 5th one).

I don't think you'll get very far in protesting that other children in the same category but who live farther away got places. First of all, because (I guess) you don't have all the information about whether those children do have statements naming the school but, besides, you need to focus on your application, not theirs. To double-check whether these families who live further away than you were considered in the same category, you could, though, ask the LEA how many places were awarded in each category - there is a chance that all places were filled from categories 1 to 4.

If you think the distance between home and school has not been measured correctly, ask the LEA to double-check it. You can also the LEA which was the farthest distance in your admissions category at which a place was awarded - if you live within that distance, this supports your argument that a mistake has been made.

Bear in mind that distance is usually measured in a straight line from home to school, so the measurements that the LEA uses may be very different from the distance by road or the time it takes to drive.

Lots of cross-posts here.

Most panels these days consist of three people. They will not be "trying not to offer you a place". They will be trying to reach a fair decision about whether your child should be given a place at the school. That's not the same thing. The panel has to weigh up the disadvantage to your child in not going to your preferred school and the disadvantage to the school and the pupils already there in having to accommodate an extra pupil.

Panels also understand that parents are nervous and keen to do their best for their child.

If you would feel more confident with a lawyer there, then go ahead, but be careful to pick one with experience and expertise in this area of law. Some lawyers who are not specialists can make things worse, by being confrontational, getting bogged down and making the hearing a more stressful experience.

Should I contact LEA or the school before appeal process and find out that everything is correct or start appeal process?

The school and LEA have to answer all reasonable requests for information. It would normally be the LEA that confirmed what admissions category your application was placed in, etc.

It's probably better to do that before you submit the appeal, as it might reveal information that you want to use in your appeal. However, don't submit your appeal late just because you're still waiting for information. If you need to, submit the outline of your appeal, setting out the main points of your case, and say that you'll provide additional detail either by letter/email before the appeal or in person on the day.

Ok, thank you.

Sandra are you sure those living further than you didn't say they attend 'their' church putting then in criteria C? Criteria's C and E are both out of parish but worshipping at diff churches, thus someone 5 miles away as their church will go above you as you are at another church? This seems likely, no?

I would also check what distance means. It can be straight line, which is simplest. However it could be "safe walking route", which can both include paths you don't expect or exclude paths you think should be included ( often due to a lack of street lights).

That people who I have mentioned, attend the same church as we do and live in Parish of our church. But we live in the border, closer to Parish of school. If to take straight line we will be even closer to school, walking distance is 0.1 mile. I hope that it was just mistake. Today we should receive the letter with reason why we didn't take the place. Then we will see what to do next.

do you think they could have lied though or taken up church attendance recently- i know someone who did this last year! They weren't even same faith as school but attending the church, jumped above those of faith who didnt attend church

SchoolsNightmare, maybe you are right. I didn't think even about this. Maybe they visit that church too. Expecting letter from the school, will see what they write.

So, I have received the letter from the school saying "I regret to inform you that it has not been possible to offer a place." Criteria B-C -19 places awarded , Criteria D-F - 9 places awarded and Criteria H/J - 1 place.

I didn't understand under which Criteria they have put my DS. Definately need to appeal.

This seems somewhat confused. Can you let me know which school and LA we are talking about please? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post that publicly. I particularly want to check the admission number and whether or not they reserve a percentage of places for the lower categories. Can you also confirm that the numbers you give are correct and that they have apparently offered 29 places?

In the meantime please ring the LA and get them to confirm which admission category the school placed you in. If it was not category E it means that either they have made a mistake assuming you provided all the required information.

Sorry - my last sentence got a bit garbled. If they have not placed your son in category E it could mean that you did not supply all the required information. There would have been a supplementary form for you to fill in and they may also have needed a letter signed by your vicar or similar. However, if all the information was present and correct it suggests that a mistake has been made.