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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

No school place offered

60 replies

Hodel · 18/04/2012 19:01

...any idea what happens next? We thought we had been extremely conservative. We only put the closest schools as our preferences and used all six choices, including two that took everyone who applied last year. We are less than 0.3 miles from nearest and under 0.5 mile from another 3. Not sure what this means. Surely they are going to have to set up buldge classes?

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

SchoolsNightmare · 18/04/2012 23:05

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angel1976 · 18/04/2012 23:08

SchoolsNightmare I feel for you! At least we moved from another area in July and I've kept the boys in their former nurseries to minimise disruption for them thinking that come September, no more driving!!!! Ha BLOODY ha! And they are still little and unable to think beyond food and play at the moment... It does sound like our house is positioned exactly like yours, just falling out of catchment this year. Boo! :(

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 18/04/2012 23:11

The more I see of this on MN the more aghast I am! Why don't children just go to their nearest school?

SchoolsNightmare · 18/04/2012 23:17

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Original poster

Hodel · 18/04/2012 23:26

It's also siblings. At least near where I live (where distances are tight anyway). I wrote on the other thread about how one school near me is infamous for parents renting a stone's throw away to secure a place for DC1 and then moving but taking places for siblings. And siblings take up most places, so very little available for local children.

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prh47bridge · 19/04/2012 00:17

Hodel - I'm not the only expert around here! But to answer your questions:

You are not obliged to say you want a place at one of the schools suggested by the LA. You may, of course, still end up being offered a place at one of them.

Nothing you do short of telling them that you no longer require a place will absolve them of their responsibility to come up with a place for your child.

Places in other boroughs (if they exist) are the same as places in your own borough. Your LA may offer you a place in a school in another borough. If you choose to apply to a school in another borough you apply to your own LA and they will let you know whether or not a place can be offered.

If they need extra places or bulge classes they will be talking to those schools best placed to accept additional pupils and pushing them to agree. Once the school agrees to the additional pupils the places will be awarded using the admission criteria in the normal way.

Original poster

Hodel · 19/04/2012 00:49

thanks so much prh! every so helpful to know. I'll be calling them tomorrow to get more info. I now gather that there were no places anywhere within reasonable distance (if I understand correctly). Will be interesting to see what happens next. I'll try to stay calm.

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Original poster

Hodel · 19/04/2012 00:53

Just to clarify on your first point: If a place is a 2 or 3 miles away is it reasonable for them to offer it?

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mummytime · 19/04/2012 06:40

Yes, but Over a certain distance they have to provide transport. I think it is 2 miles until the child is 8.

Original poster

Hodel · 19/04/2012 07:12

Thanks for the clarification! (although that's not good news). I'm also wondering about faith schools? If they only offer a place at one could I refuse and appeal?

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SchoolsNightmare · 19/04/2012 07:40

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Original poster

Hodel · 19/04/2012 07:54

Even if I am a different faith? That's interesting. Well, i'll see what they say today.

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SchoolsNightmare · 19/04/2012 08:22

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mummytime · 19/04/2012 09:11

The thing to realise is that in the UK all "non faith" schools are supposed to be "broadly Christian". I also know personally a C of E school which is predominantly Muslim. You still have a right to withdraw a child from Assemblies etc.

prh47bridge · 19/04/2012 10:18

"Reasonable distance" isn't defined in the legislation but a journey of up to an hour each way is usually regarded as reasonable. As Mummytime says, if the school is more than 2 miles walking distance from your home the LA has to provide free transport to and from school for your child.

You can appeal for your preferred schools regardless of whether or not you are offered a place at a faith school. You are not appealing against the allocated school. You are appealing for your preferred school - an important distinction.

If you are offered a place at a faith school and reject it the LA is not under any obligation to find another place for you. Even if they do it is likely to be at an unpopular school even further from home. If a place exists at any faith school it will be offered, not just Catholic and CofE schools. Before rejecting faith schools you should take a look. Many of them are not particularly religious. The difference between a faith school and your local community school may be much less than you think. You may even find that the community school is more religious than the faith school!

angel1976 · 19/04/2012 12:50

So now got all the letters. The school which we expected to get into which had a 'catchment' of 700 metres this year shrunk to 436 metres and we are 515 metres away... weeps

PanelChair · 19/04/2012 13:12

Sadly, that can happen. If this was a bumper year for siblings - which it may well be, especially if there is a bulge class 2 or 3 years ahead adding to the number of siblings - the distance at which the last place was awarded can shrink dramatically.

As you know, you now need to join waiting lists and keep up the pressure on the LEA to find a place for your child somewhere.

Changebagsandgladrags · 19/04/2012 13:18

angel, you will probably get in via the waiting list on that distance.

PanelChair · 19/04/2012 13:26

Erm, I wouldn't bank on it. If the last place was awarded at 436m and Angel lives at 515m, that potentially puts quite a few children in that 'just missed out' zone of 80-odd metres outside the last distance awarded. There could be several children ahead of Angel's on the waiting list and, if this is a small, popular school with not much mobility in and out of the area, it could be a long time before a place comes up.

Don't give up hope on the waiting list - and check where you are on it - but look for other options too.

angel1976 · 19/04/2012 13:29

I am hand-delivering my form to the council later today (they said I could do so and get a receipt for it). I am not taking any chances. This school isn't even the best in the area (had a fairly shocking ofsted report last year BUT the mums I know who have kids in it love it and they have a new head last year as well whom I have met and like). We have an appointment to see this school we have been assigned next Tuesday and also to see this private school we have friends who have kids in there and happy with. Thank you all.

Original poster

Hodel · 19/04/2012 14:20

didn't get letter today, but went to speak to the council. According to them there was no local school that we would have gotten a place at. We looked at cut-off distances in my area and we were outside of all of them. So I couldn't have avoided the situation. There are some schools in the borough with places but they are miles away. (The nearest one is my 50th nearest school!) We can put our names down for them, but places will be allocated by distance. There are apparently 250 children without places.

prh by the way, they were adament that they do not have to provide transport at all. I mentioned the 2 miles and they said they only do it in exceptional circumstances (such as severe disability).

Do the faith schools places count beyond CoE or Catholic? For example, on the list of places with space there is an ultra orthodox Jewish girl's school. Would it be reasonable for them to offer a place there to a non-Jewish girl? or to a boy?

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prh47bridge · 19/04/2012 18:18

On school transport they are wrong. They have no choice. They are required by law to provide free transport if the school allocated is more than 2 miles from home by the shortest walking route and the child is under 8. They cannot limit it to exceptional circumstances. The only exception would be if you had chosen the school in preference to your local school.

Yes, it would be reasonable of them to offer a place at a Jewish school to a non-Jewish pupil. Like other faith schools, they are required to admit and cater for children who are of other faiths or no faith. However, they cannot offer a place at a girls school to a boy.

fapl · 19/04/2012 18:30

Hey angel I posted on a thread last year you wrote on about local schools. I knew this would happen. I read there were no local (Lee vicinity) bulge classes this year and was wondering how much the catchments would shrink. You have given me the answer for one school. No bulges and extra siblings from previous bulge classes means there will be a number of people in your position locally. You must be almost as close as the crow flies to Brindishe Green (but sorry don't know exactly where you live). It has 3 form entry so a little more scope for movement, was it on your list? I think it looks fab. I am sure you will get something local in the whole shakedown, it might just be a nail biting wait.

Next year (if it opens in time) there will be 2 extra forms at the new Trinity Primary, unfortunately that doesn't help you now.

In the letter did they tell you the distances for all schools on your list? If so could you pm me?

Also, don't feel bad about not putting the Catholic school down, you wouldn't have got in. No non Catholics do these days. Your helpful neighbours are probably giving you info about catchment areas from 5 years ago which as you have learnt isn't relevant today as there has been a baby boom and people that in the past would have moved out of London since having kids aren't due to job security issues, the economy and wanting to stay close to the strongest job market in the country.

I have a DS starting school next year.

PanelChair · 19/04/2012 18:52

Prh47bridge - The practice in my borough (and in others too, I guess) is not to offer free transport because Transport for London already provides free fares for school age children and, as the legal requirement is to provide free transport for the child and not for the parent, they consider that the requirement has been fulfilled.

If there are 250 children with no school place then (presumably) the LEA is taking steps to create bulge classes. I suggest you start lobbying for where you want those classes to be!

angel1976 · 19/04/2012 22:24

fapl Yup, Brindishe Green was on my list. Their catchment shrunk tremendously this year too. Last year, it was 900 metres, this year it's 410 metres (we are in between those figures). You are right in that the Catholic school does require kids to be baptised. I will PM you the distances. Siblings this year make up more than half of each intake of each school. I feel calmer about it all. Whereabouts are you? There's another road near me, which seems to have done even worse. Apparently kids there are being sent to Deptford. DH is adamant DS1 is not going to the school he is assigned to, I am open to ideas and want to see this school first and have an appointment to see it next Tuesday. Have also hand-delivered acceptance-cum-waiting list letter today once I confirmed accepting the place we were given would not disadvantage us on the waiting list...

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