To be able to choose when your child starts primary school

[kedge]

Like many other parents, I am waiting to find out which school DC3 will get a place at. Although DC1 & DC2 are already at our first choice of school for DC3, it is not guaranteed that a place will automatically follow so am understandably nervous. But was wondering how many parents feel that their child is actually ready to start school?

DC1 was nowhere near ready, having only turned 4 at the end of August and would definately have benefitted from an extra year at home. When we enquired about deferring a place for a year we were told that it was at the schools discretion if they would hold a place and that DC1 would join the class in Y1. We decided that there were no benefits to doing this as we felt reception class was too important to miss as it introduces the children to school life, is more 'play' based and enables them to form friendships. We were not allowed to defer the start such that DC1 would start the following year in reception and go through school with that year. Additionally, the school is one of the best in the area and heavily oversubscribed, so we didnt want to run the risk of losing a place there, so it was Catch 22.

When DC2 started, it was a whole different ball game as with a birthday that meant DC2 is one of the eldest in the year and was obviously 'ready' for school it has been plain sailing compared to DC1 who still hadn't settled in at the end of Y1!! DC3 is also going to be one of the older children in reception and is also ready to start school. The contrast between the two children already at school leaves me in no doubt that there is definately a 'right time' for them to go to school.

Would anyone else like to see a system whereby parents can decide if a child is ready to start school in the year they can apply for a place based on their own judgement? For example, if the childs birthday falls between June and end of August for a September start, they have a choice whether to defer a place for a year and start as a reception class child the following year, so that the child has effectively started school at just turned 5 rather than just turned 4?

We had lots of lovely pictures like that from my DS's reception year and Y1 too. Also the school never pushed him into anything - but still there is that expectation that children learn to read and write to some extend in Reception.

Just Playing

"When I'm building in the block room,
Please don't say I'm "just playing."
For, you see, I'm learning as I play.
About balance and shapes.
When I'm getting all dressed up,
Setting the table, caring for the babies.
Don't get the idea I'm "just playing."
For, you see, I'm learning as I play.
When you see me up to my elbows in paint,
Or standing at an easel, or molding and shaping clay,
Please don't let me hear you say "he's just playing."
For, you see, I'm learning as I play.
I'm expressing myself and being creative.
I may be an artist or an inventor someday.
When you see me sitting in a chair
"Reading" to an imaginary audience,
Please don't laugh and think I'm "just playing."
For, you see, I'm learning as I play.
I may be a teacher someday.
When you see me combing the bushes for bugs,
Or packing my pockets with choice things I find,
Don't pass it off as "just playing."
For, you see, I'm learning as I play.
I may be a scientist someday.
When you see me engrossed in a puzzle,
Or some "plaything" at my school,
Please don't feel the time is wasted in "play"
For, you see, I'm learning as I play.
I'm learning to solve problems and concentrate.
I may be in business someday.
When you see me cooking or tasting foods,
Please don't think that because I enjoy it, it is just "play.
I'm learning to follow directions and see differences.'
I may be a chef someday.
When you see me learning to skip, hop, run and move my body,
Please don't say I'm "just playing."
For, you see, I'm learning as I play.
I'm learning how my body works.
I may be a doctor, nurse or athlete someday.
When you ask me what I've done at school today,
And I say, "I played."
Please don't misunderstand me.
For, you see, I'm learning as I play.
I'm learning to enjoy and be successful in work.
I'm preparing for tomorrow.
Today, I'm a child and my work is play.

DS had an excellent Reception teacher, but I feel he was just too young. When starting R DS couldn't count accurately, at the end of Y1 he couldn't add up beyond 10, I supported him at home in maths in Y2 and I feel he is now secure on all Level 2 areas and now is keen to add up numbers to 1000 and to learn another times table (he knows 2,5 and 10 well). I is starting to ckick now.

Perhaps he could have counted/ added how many blocks he used in his building without realising he was learning

mrz - also, I do think my DS is a bit autistic and just likes certain types of play (he never liked any games with rules, he only now starts to do a bit of role play, he doesn't like large groups and gets obsessed with certain things) - I find DS's play is not as varied as that of most children.

I noticed that when I had DD (3.5), she likes most things and is a lot easier to entertain. Whereas DS has played Starwars Lego since Christmas! He has built some amazing models though.

Would have been another good reason to defer him.

mrz - no, I tried! He just ignored me or told me to leave him alone.

Playing Star Wars Lego since Christmas sounds very familiar

DS learned to add up/substract within 100 and times tables by him nicking oranges and me chasing him around the kitchen table and ever I caught him he had to to 2 or 3 claculations to be released - he loved that game!

Not aged 4 though, he wouldn't count stairs, sweets or anything for that matter, neither would he draw - a year later he wouldn't do anything elses but draw!

Its not just teaching methods, a lot of it is developmental as well at that age I find.

Also I know you have a lot more experience with that age group than I but if I look at my DS and a few others, that is still my opinion.

I'm also the mother of a son with ASD and a summer birthday

ragged - very few send their dc to school if they have an Oct, Nov or Dec birthday (but they can if they wish). But there is more pressure from the assessment process to send dc to school if they're birthdays are before the end of sept cut off date. So ds2 has an end of August birthday - he'll be 6 this year and start school 2 weeks later. Thankfully he's very ready to learn since there is virtually no play in the 1st class here. But because the dc are those few years older than in the UK, they mostly cope with it much better.

The thing is Ploom although children are younger when they start school in the UK there is lots of play in the first class and even at age 6 most good schools will teach through play.

I don't object to the 'teach through play' idea in the Uk (although in my experience there is much too much emphasis on writing) but I object to the very long days. Contrary to what you say mrz, there is a huge difference between a day at nursery and a day in reception and a lot of children are absolutely knackered throughout the first year.

Celtic - I don't know if anyone else has said this as have only read half the thread in the pictures whilst waiting for film to start, but in our county it is possible to defer if your child was significantly prem and should have been 'born into' the following school year. I think you probably have a better chance if you can clearly demonstrate any developmental issues due to prematurity ie speech and language probs etc.

I agree societyclowns - it is a very long day as well as having to learn. And yes they get probably an hour for lunch but they then run around for some of that time - its an exhausting day. I agree maryz that a lot of reception is play based - dd left the UK in Y3 - but it isnt all. They are still doing literacy & numeracy - dd knew these words before she was 5. there are lots of 4 year olds who are just not ready for school at such a young age.
So my dc start school older here & still have a shorter day even if you account for them doing 30 mins homework every day. Sometimes ds1 is home at 11.45am!
Just think there needs to be some flexibilty in the UK system.

SocietyClowns perhaps it's a shorter day if you are a SAHM but many children with working parents have much shorter days once they start school than they did in day nursery ... as many MN parents complain

I do wonder how many parents are not ready for their child to start , especially when the child is their youngest and often babied, rather than the child not being ready.

Ploom do you mind me asking how your dd adjusted to the different system in Bavaria? Was she placed by age as in the UK or by her ability ie where she fitted best? (Personal interest, would love to relocate!!)

mrz I'm keeping the needs of working parents out of the equation for the sake of my argument that for many children who have just turned 4, a day in reception is very very exhausting and quite different to what many of them were used to in day nurseries. Although to go with your point, it is quite true that somewhere like Germany where the majority of primary schools finish well before lunch, it is quite hard for both parents to hold down full time or even part time jobs.

But you can't take it out of the equation when you make a statement about length of day SocietyClowns. Some children will have spent 10 hours or more in nursery. We have children attending afternoon nursery who will have been in the CC day care for 5 hours before they come to us and then go back for another 3 after nursery end

mrz I am not disagreeing with you. I just think that the fact that some people expect free childcare is not a very good argument for requiring all 4 year olds to spend long times at school. I just agree with other posters who would prefer more flexibility.

The fact that many young children have much longer days in nursery negates the argument that the school day is too long for all 4 and 5 year olds though.

bruffin - the dc who we held back was my middle dc and was definitely not babied. My youngest (who is sometimes babied!!) will happily go in Sept as one of the youngest.

My dd was in private nursery for 3 long days up until she started school but the difference was she could have a nap if she wanted at nursery - which is not an unreasonable demand at the age of 4.

societyclowns - she went into the appropriate year for her age when me moved here which makes her one of the young ones. But dh is german so she could speak ok german before we moved here. She coped with the move really well - loved being home at lunchtime, loved not having to wear a uniform, wasnt so keen on the early 8am start & homework every day. But she's now in the 5th class and at the equivalent of grammer school and thriving. But ironically she is now back to being at school all day but with a 2 hour break in the middle for some downtime.

Ok, I'll say it again: a day in reception is quite different from a day in nursery. Staff to child ratio, opportunity to nap are just two differences. And depending on school (and before I get flamed you will agree mrz that you do not know what goes on in every primary school in the UK) there is quite an emphasis on early reading, writing, maths in formal sit down and learn sessions, whatever the guidelines say about 'learning through play'. This is, in my humble opinion and with limited experience, down to some parents' expectations as well as some teachers of long standing who have not fully gone along with the curriculum changes.

and I disagree. We have a sleep area with a double mattress pillows duvets soft toys and drapes