Primary appeal

[Diamond301]

what a thread to start as my first here.... i've spent most of the day reading through the past appeals threads and i understand the most of it regarding infant class sizes etc. My problem:

My DS had his 1st choice school rejected and was offered our 2nd choice, problem being his sibling (half brother) is already in associated junior school of 1st choice school. Now from reading through the threads i've come to realise this a common problem and people have to cope with children being in different schools. However we know that a child has been allocated a place at our 1st choice school, he is out of catchment, doesn't have a sibling there so from the way i've read our admissions policy DS should have been allocated a space above this child as siblings come above distance... Aside from this DS is in foundation1 at our 1st choice school and when we enrolled him there last sept the teachers said that DS would go through to F2 and subsequent infant years easily due to his sibling link, surely this gave us false expectations (i must admit to being very shocked at not being allocated a place at our 1st choice)

So today i spoke to admissions they say DS is already on waiting list 6 of 9 and that he has been refused due to oversubscription, i mentioned sibling links and they have now asked me to send any official proof we have of access rites to stepson and they will re-evaluate DS application and if they can't do anything they will try to move him up the waiting list.

She then went on to say if they can't offer him a place immediately i can carry on to appeal and in fact i should complete the appeal information and send it in with the court papers for access rites to SS.

I have other items to put into the appeal but i don't believe they hold much weight, childcare issues brought about by essentially splitting the family, come sept i will have 3 different school drop offs as my DD starts pre-school (which is next to our 1st choice school), the fact we believed DS would be granted a place on sibling grounds led me to enrol him in their foundation setting, it's took him 7 months to settle in and not cry every morning when i leave him (i'm going to have this all over again if he starts somewhere new in Sept), i'll lose my childminder of 4years :( as she only collects/drops off at my 1st choice school, so another change for my little boy.

Given what the lady said on the phone today and the fact i have to submit everything back to admissions does it look like they have made a mistake with the allocations? Surely if they had looked at his application properly and applied everything correctly she would have advised me to go straight to appeal?

if it is indeed the case that a child without a sibling who lives further away from the school as the crow flies has been given a place it does sound as though they've made a mistake - good luck with the appeal

Did you make it clear that he had a sibling at the school when you applied? If so it does sound as if they have made a mistake so you have a chance of winning your appeal. (Check with Admissions, PRH(some no)or Panelmember, all MN education gurus to confirm).
If they weren't aware of the sibling issue, you should still be moved up the waiting list.

thanks, yes it was on the admission form about his sibling, from speaking to the other mums down at school today all others with sibling links have got a place and neither could fathom why DS hasn't.

The woman at admissions today was really helpful and said she would put notes on DS's file stating that she had asked me to send all supporting information back to admissions for re-evaluation.

We have also asked SS mum to put together a letter highlighting that we take SS too and from school and what impacts this is going to have on her/SS, if DS ends up at different school to SS. We wont be able to do the school drop offs/pickups for him anymore which ultimately causes her problems with work and childcare.

thanks tiggy - he doesn't live with us and his mother gets CB, i understand that this can work against us, but we do have a court order which states we have him during the week overnight as well from 3pm Friday through to Monday morning so this would impact the school runs. As well as having SS after school until his mother finishes work

We know the child in question isn't in care nor does he have special needs, he actually goes to the same childminder as my DS so we know his parents and the little boy very well.

I guess it's going to be a lottery again then as to whether they allow the sibling link once i submit all the paperwork, i can't imagine what it will do to us as a family if DS doesn't get a place there. For one i know the court order will be broken as i physically cannot do 3 different school runs and get myself to work, the only way i could do this (short of giving up work) is to change my hours to school hours which in my job i just cannot do.

Are there definitely sibling link priorities between the junior school and the infant school? Are they part of the same school or two different schools?

They are part of the same school, the infant section is actually closing sept 2013 to amalgamate with juniors so it'll all be in one building with 1 headteacher. It does say in the admissions policy sibling at the same infant school or attached/associated junior school.

That is what i have come to terms with, i knod of just got some hope from the lady today after she looked at DS file said send everything back to us and we'll look at moving him up the waiting list, its led me to believe they maybe missed something, i don't know. Will prepare everything and send it off, got nothing to lose but everything to gain in a sense. thank you

kind not knod lol

thanks so much, so much better to read things in plain english rather than trying to decipher between lines and conversations.

I'm going to make a visit to our allocated achool, which i have no issue with DS going to in theory, i've never been to the school but reports are good and see what vibe i get from there, at least if our appeal isn't successful hopefully i will be at ease with the school he has been given!

The problem here is definitely that the step son does not live in the same household for the majority of the school week. You need to check exactly what the admission criteria says but I suspect it says that the sibling has to be living in the same household.
However having said that your posts suggest that you are in catchment for the school and as such should still have priority over the other child if they are out of catchment. So is this correct? Or does your LA simply work on distance not giving any priority to being in catchment for the school?

It is on distance so i imagine he lives closer, however they have worked it out.

I have everything i need for the appeal now, including the letter from SS mum stating her concerns for childcare and family stability if the boys are split.
thanks for all the help and advice x

If this is an infant class size appeal you will need to convince the appeal panel that a mistake has been made. That could be failing to give your son sibling priority but, as Admission says, with your stepson living elsewhere for the majority of the school week that probably won't fly, but I would need to see the admission criteria for this school to say for sure. If you want to argue that your son should have been in a "special medical or social needs" category or similar (assuming there is one) you will need to show that there was enough evidence in your application to support this. If you didn't provide the evidence the LA has not made a mistake. The only other possibility based on what you have posted is that they have measured the home to school distance incorrectly.

If this is not an infant class size appeal you stand a better chance but even then I doubt the panel will give much weight to the letter from your stepson's mother. Childcare issues don't make a successful appeal and the panel may feel that her views on family stability don't count for much unless there is independent professional evidence to back it up.

It is always worth appealing. You never know what will emerge during the hearing and occasionally you will get a sympathetic panel who will admit a child even when they shouldn't.

It is an ICS, it's for reception. I have my appeal documents now to complete and send back, i actually applied on-line for my son and it asked about siblings so i named him and which class he was in, there was then a tick box asking if the child resided full time with us, i said no and it then asked for his permenant address which i supplied. However i have just found out the paper admissions forms on none of that is on there!! It just asks for the sibling name, school they're at and which class, nothing about residence etc. Surely for the whole system to be fair to everyone the paper application form should ask the same questions as the online one??

What's not to say that other kids have got in our 1st choice by completing the paper form who are in the same situation as us and we've lost out because i did the online approach?

It is worth questioning that. However, it won't necessarily win your appeal and, to be honest, I think it is a long shot. The question the panel will need to answer is whether any children have been admitted incorrectly and, if so, whether your son would have been admitted if the LA had got it right. If your son would still not have got a place even if everyone had used the online form the discrepancy between the forms won't help you I'm afraid.

thanks, going to make a start tonight once the kids are in bed but dont really know where to start, should i send me whole case now, or just bullet point my case and expand at the appeal?

i know i need to send all supporting documentation in now so i have the court papers in relation to SS ready. As my documents need to go back to admissions for review (not appeals) should i approach this in a different way or as if it was going back to the appeal department?

also as this is an ICS appeal should i be asking admissions to supply me with any information relating to past numbers/appeals?

The teachers at the school have never known children be refused places (everyone has got in) so i'm assuming there may not be any information relating to past appeals.

I would use bullet points and expand at the appeal.

You can send copies of the documents for the appeal. You don't have to supply originals in advance.

As this is an ICS appeal past numbers and previous successful appeals aren't really relevant. If it were me I would probably ask about past numbers in case that threw up anything interesting but with the expectation that it probably wouldn't help.

Appeal all wrote and in the post back to admissions for them to re-asses. I'll come back and update when i hear anything
thanks for all the help and advice

Just to be clear, admissions don't reassess. The next step is that they will arrange a hearing in front of an independent panel who will decide your appeal.

When i spoke to admissions about the sibling link/court order etc she asked me to send all the information to them (not to the appeal clerk) so they could reassess our application, i'm guessing this is to see if they can move us up the waiting list before passing the information onto the Appeal clerk?