reception and private schools

[dancingwithchocolate]

I am curious to know what an average Reception age child at a good private school (let's say any of the competitive and established North London ones) would be expected to do by the end of the summer term ie. what level would be normal/good for reading, writing, numeracy.
Thanks

From these messages I would say our school is similar to mrz, but perhaps that it is the more advanced children that are achieving the things you mention rather than them all. DS can write a sentence and maybe string 2 together, perhaps by the end of the year he will be able to write a few more/ a story? His reading is on ORT 5/6/7 now so probably a bit higher by end of year. He is an older one, October birthday. My opinion for what it's worth is that it doesn't really matter how they are doing at the end of Reception re a lot of these skills, especially if they are young in the year. End of year 1 and it starts to matter a bit more, end of year 2 certainly. As long as they are still taught to do these things in these years- you do need someone to teach you how to shape the letters and phonics.

sleepingbunny I would expect those children doing large amounts of writing have been at school since September. Children are so variable at this age that I don't think she is behind especially as a January starter.

Thanks wigglywoowoo. I'm assuming she'll be absolutely fine - education is a long game and her August-born father (who has a First from Cambridge) didn't write anything at all til he was six (I know this because his Mum has just given us all of his schoolbooks, joyously enough)

My dc goes to a pushy pre-prep. It's unselective at entry, but only goes to 7, so prepares them thoroughly for the 7+ and has a very good record of getting it's children into the top selectives at 7.

Here's what my dc is doing now:
spellings - 45 words - all done, working towards finishing top 100 by end of summer term. Spelling tests twice a week, 3 words at a time, with same spelling rule, eg: at, hat, cat.
reading - all seem to be on about ORT 4-7 at the moment. A new reading book comes home 4 x a week
maths - number bonds to 10 done, now working on bonds to 20; simple money problems, maths +10 pattern upto to 100, 2d and 3d shapes, symmetry
handwriting - varies I'd say from looking at recent class displays. I'd wager that older children currently have slightly better hand grip than the youngest and it shows at this young age.
writing - very basic stories, capital letters and full stops expected, for basic news stories or re-telling of popular fairy tales and bible stories.

There's a marked difference in the achievements of the Autumn born v the Summer born, but the Summer born children seem to also achieve great results in the 7+, I don't know whether this is because they catch up, because the selective prep schools do purposely select from across the calendar year group or a mixture of the two factors.

One very experienced Mum I know is adamant that Summer born children have a much better chance of getting into selectives as parents are put off putting their Summer born children into the tests and so there is less competition for that quartile of children sitting the exam. Whereas there is a excess of Autumn born children competing for that quarter of places.

Ah, thanks sybilwibble. Doesn't sound that far off what DS is doing, although no spelling tests (!) and perhaps his writing isn't quite up to your pushy prep. He does spend quite a lot of time inventing . Wonder how the pushy prep would score on that .

so very very very very far off

I suppose it depends whether you want them nose to the grindstone at 4 or whether you think there's any value in the time spent playing shops dressed as a fairy. Personally, I'd go with the fairy wings every time.

OP, have a look here for instance
www.qcps.org.uk/qp/curriculum/curriculum_overview
click on Reception
I also sent a msg to your Inbox

seeker: not sure that's true. Other schools round here have a lot of play - as much as the school my son is at - but the teaching time is used differently - with more differentiation and with more advanced work, largely, I imagine, because the kids are starting at a different level (which is code for saying come from homes with EFL and educated parents)

Having looked at catastrophewaiter's link I would say that both my DS1 and my DD1 (in Y1 and Y2) are doing the same or a little more than the curriculum on that website at their state village primary. I am sure this is not that unusual?

I think what parents think their children can and cannot do is strongly influenced by their personal perception of what counts as being able to do something. So I'm not entirely sure brief descriptions on this thread are hugely helpful, because they will be generating entirely different mental images from one person to another.

This has given me a really useful insight into primary education. My dd will be 4 in Jul, is due to start primary school in Sep and I'm worried! What on earth will she be doing? She's been able to write a few words since she was 3 1/2 so if she's not writing published short stories by the time she leaves reception class I'll be really disappointed!

dancingwithchocolate - yes that's very true indeed. It's also worth pointing out that a pre-prep school aiming for 7+ at exit will also often have classes of just 10-12 children, with a teacher and a TA, hence the ability to get the children up to academic standard for exit exams whilst also allowing lots of fun playtime, music, sport etc. AND many of the reception children had already been at the school's nursery department, so had started lots of number and letter play learning there too.

I'd be really interested to know whether those children who are taught to do all of that in Reception really end up in a better place than those who learn it later. I can understand if you need to prepare for certain exams, but otherwise, I wonder how much difference it makes, especially if children are regularly read to (so being introduced to new vocabulary) and using the time for imaginative play instead of learning paragraphing. Will it not all even out by Yr 2?
It seems so odd to me that on Mumsnet, nursery children are seen as horribly pushed if their parents want them to read and write. In Reception it is suddenly all about writing lots and ORT levels.
A child like my daughter, had she been born at a different time of the year, would still be in nursery at the age she is now. She'd be at the same developmental stage - but everyone would think she was a genius because she was a preschooler.

Sleeping bunny- the evidence on mainland Europe suggests that they don't.

Seeker, I'll leave her to her fairy wings and shopping games then. Easier all round.

I am asking because at some point, if i wish to transfer my son to an independent school, I don't want him to be so far behind he has to cram to catch up (i fear it is no longer like the olden days when schools would admit on 'potential' alone).

actually i don't think kids should start formal learning until seven - and i'd be happy for my son to go to an entirely play based school until then.... the trouble is that british schools aren't organised like that. the only way is.... SWEDEN.

What I would be interested to know is whether it is really much harder to get into a private school these days than it used to be, or whether things are not so very different from the olden days referred to by dancingwithchocolate? Personally, I'd put a greater weighting in favour of a child with interesting thoughts and ideas over one who can write neatly and accurately but what in effect is boring and uninspiring text, but I guess a certain level of legibility is required in order to communicate original thinking!

If the days are the same I would be delighted.

Sleeping Bunny/Seeker: On the continent - and particularly in Nordic countries - the whole system encourages early play, informal learning, and non compulsory education until six or seven. That means everyone is at the same level when they start compulsory education. This is not the case here. Sadly, this means that if you want your child to go to a selective or competitive independent school (because the state schools where you live aren't very good...) you will have a struggle getting in unless you either tutor or keep your child up to speed as you go along. Maybe once they are in they would be able to catch up and keep up - particularly if they've been encouraged to think for themselves through imaginative play rather than rote learing. But I am not sure how many of these selective independents are willing to help kids catch up ie admit on potential and then bring kids up to speed.

Anyone know?

Independent schools will always take into account the month in which they are born. So if august born children are behind someone born in september the understand they are not biologically ready to learn what the september born child is learning because they are almost a year younger. Selective independents are selective so are interested in the best of the best. But there are excellent private schools which are selective in the type of child but are not academically selective and those schools are all about doing the best for their child and helping that child achieve their full potential.

I have a friend with a daughter at St Albans High School for Girls prep dept and apparently it is true that they shunt them all along to ORT level 10 by the end of Reception. But I think they do this and nothing else. There are plenty of girls in the prep school who fail to make the grade to enter the High School in spite of their early progress at reading. And among those entering St Albans High School for Girls Snr Dept are girls from state primaries who were struggling with ORT level 3 at the end of reception.

We've all read the story of the state educated tortoise and the independently educated hare, haven't we?

It all depends on the school you select and what it's ethos is.

I don't think anyone should worry too much about children being behind if they start later - I've seen children come into DC's school unable to speak English and a year later they're at the top of the class. Good schools will always bring on kids and help them catch up if they're behind when they join (no reason to think they will be behind, anyway)

A good indie will have class sizes small enough and teachers expert enough to ensure that children develop at a pace that's appropriate for them as individuals. One child might be doing cursive writing and reading ORT6 and another might still be recognising flash cards. The only thing that matters is that both of these children are being challenged, supported and encouraged and that they are developing at a 'healthy' pace and that both children have high self-esteem.

There is also a lot of variation between private schools. some have much more emphasis on developing social skills vs academic skills; some will have just one main 'teacher' whereas others will start introducing children at a young age to specialist teachers (as in science teacher, french teacher, maths teacher, etc). You need to work at what you think works best for your own DCs. Given your awareness of the Nordic concepts, you might want to look at schools with 'Forest School' status - there are a number of private schools with forest accreditation.

If you are thinking of bringing a child into private at a later date, then IMO I think yr3 is probably the latest date you want to think of (the academic heat gets turned up then). unless you have a particularly bright child, in which case you can probably get away with any year up to yr6.

Just read your profile Squiffy. I think we may be the same person.

They definitely don't need their nose to the grindstone to leave reception reading writing and able to do basic maths seeker ... lots of play and fun.

It depends on the level of SEN KitKatGirl1 we have children arrive with high levels of difficulty 2+ years behind developmentally so the focus is different.