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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Academic Competition

72 replies

ScarletTiger · 12/04/2012 17:28

Okay I am just going to come out and say this. I am a competitive mum when it comes to my children's education and I am frustrated that my children's school is so uncompetitive.

I can understand that you want to reward children for participating and embrace the idea of 'its not the winning, it's the taking part' but PLEASE really kids are getting awards for turning up in the correct uniform or for not being late.

Before the holidays, my year 2, 6 year old DS did a phonics test with the juniors and came 2nd and was only beaten by an 11 year old - they didn't want to reward him as it would make the juniors feel bad.

The reason for the post was to find out if any other parents out there know a website or links to academic competitions that are independent of schools. When ever there are local competitions for writing or painting and my children enter they seem to achieve more than things organised by the school.

OP posts:

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SoupDragon · 13/04/2012 07:50

I have to agree with Madwoman that your children's school is certainly not uncompetitive if they have a competition!

seeker · 13/04/2012 07:53

What on earth is a "phonics test"?

And are you saying that your child came second in whatever this competition was and everyone else got a certificate and he didn't?

Are you absolutely sure you've got this story quite straight? Did your ds tell you what happened or did the teacher?

mrz · 13/04/2012 07:53

In Y6 it would be things like

verb to create add the suffix - drop the e creative, creativity noun creation
to approve add the prefix disapprove

seeker · 13/04/2012 08:15

I must live on a different planet! Schools doing competitive phonics, reception children capable of year 7 work.....

And I was a bit annoyed at the 6 pages of SATs practice ds brought home for the holidays!

mrz · 13/04/2012 08:20

I'm not sure that competitive phonics exists and SATs homework shouldn't exist

seeker · 13/04/2012 08:29

Isn't competitive phonics what the op's about? I do admit to being baffled by the whole thread!

Agree about the SATs homework- to be fair to the school it was only 6 sheets and they have been promised chocolate if they do it!

mrz · 13/04/2012 08:53

To be honest I'm very about what the OP has said.

Sometimes my class go to Y6 to "show off" and the Y6s play along and let them get the answers first and clap and build up self esteem/feel proud. I suspect something similar has happened and the certificates ... were an after thought of the OP

Original poster

ScarletTiger · 13/04/2012 09:48

The school is not competitive in the sense that they don't do things where they compete/put forward children for things like the primary maths challenge or compete with other schools (not just sports). The internal school events are not competitions just your average test not something they prepare or work on and submit on a set date.

My DS doing a phonics test with juniors was not because of SEN on any child's part. He is not G&T just very good at reading, spelling/phonics and maths and does these classes with the juniors therefore see himself as their equal and be acknowledged for doing what they are doing.

Obviously things have changed since I was a child but I remember that our school took part in lots of local and county events. I am not sure if that makes any sense I just wanted to findout if I could channel my child's competitive edge to other things that are run independently from the school so he does feel he is getting his reward for achieving something.

OP posts:

CecilyP · 13/04/2012 09:49

Am still mildly curious how a school that pits 6yos against 11yos in direct competition can be described as not competitive....

I am also wondering what is involved in a 'phonics' test that both Y2 and Y6 can take part in, in competion with each other.

CecilyP · 13/04/2012 09:54

X post. I am now wondering why a Y2 who is way ahead of his age still needs to do phonics and spelling - even if it is with the juniors. If your son is feeling competitive, I would channel it to things outside school. If sounds as if he is actually being grouped with the less able juniors - so not really a competition at all. No idea why the others got a certificate and he didn't though.

TheFallenMadonna · 13/04/2012 09:58

He's not on the G&T register, but he does Maths and English with the year 6s aged 6? Or am I confused?

seeker · 13/04/2012 09:58

But yes, if he did the test he should have got a certificate, who told you what happened? Him or his teacher?

mrz · 13/04/2012 10:05

So the school sets for phonics and as part of the lesson they had a test?

Original poster

ScarletTiger · 13/04/2012 10:09

The school doesn't have G&T, he's never been tested, but the school would have said if he was G&T.

I followed up with the school about the post it note which said 35/37 and the there and their spelling and his yr 2 teacher told me.

CecilyP - I think he is being put with juniors who are less able.

OP posts:

mrz · 13/04/2012 10:25

Are Y6 doing there and their?

seeker · 13/04/2012 10:28

This gets weirder and weirder!

HandMadeTail · 13/04/2012 10:40

At my DCs junior schools (2 different schools - private) different rewards are given for social skills, ie manners, uniform, kindness, etc to those given for academic achievement. The awards given for academic achievement are relative, ie, if it is good work for that particular child, as for another child it may be less than they could have achieved, and would therefore not be worthy of an award.
This works very well, as far as I can see.
At DD1s secondary school (state), you can get an award for "contribution to school life" (getting involved in house competitions, charity fundraising etc)and/or "dedication to school work" (There are other award for music, sport etc)

This also seems to work well.
Perhaps you could suggest this to the head.

PastSellByDate · 13/04/2012 10:48

OK folks - I'm with seeker this is a weird feed.

So if the question is more general - is teaching a sense of competition or fostering competition a good thing in education?

Well children do respond to it. My DD1 is in an accelerated reading programme for children who are not reading at their chronological age and there is a chart that records how many books they have read. Everyone wants to be at the top of the chart because the winner at the end of each term gets book tokens.

Now the TA who runs this is sensible - she also rewards every child for every 10 books they read. And she inputs into the Y4 teachers/ TAs certificate at the end of each term for 'most improved pupil', which all the kids are eager to get. (I think because oddly enough they all know how pleased their parents will be and they all desperately want to please their parents).

I think like anything it's a question of balance. A bit of friendly competition makes things interesting and might excite more interest/ encourage children to work that bit harder or faster/ etc... But I am of that generation where scores were announced and teachers used to take evil pleasure in telling a child they were the 'dunce' - and I don't think repeatedly being told you're the worst in a class and must do better is any help whatsoever.

So perhaps Scarlettiger what you might be getting at is there seems to be rewards for anything and everything these days - and maybe the pendulum has swung too far. But encouraging/ supportive environments are generally happier learning experiences for children - and I think that's the logic behind this excessive rewarding of any achievement no matter how silly and I agree that means that some major achievements can be underplayed in among awards for tidiest class, best behave pupil at lunch, etc....

I think AGuninmyPetticoat and Schoolsnightmare raise a very important point - dedication and endeavor are also important skills and should also be encouraged. I also feel (at my ripe old age >40) it has been my experience that a strong work ethic does get you a long way. I do sometimes fear that my DDs don't really understand that to get good at something you really need to work at it - so we try to learn that life lesson with outside activities (violin, swimming, dance, etc...).

mrz · 13/04/2012 10:49

Yes I give rewards for effort and improvement rather than always for being the best.
www.guardian.co.uk/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2012/apr/13/teaching-mindfullness-school-children?CMP=twt_gu

mrz · 13/04/2012 10:53

PastSellByDate I have a child in my class this year who started in September 3 years behind in reading and writing and through sheer effort on her part (she doesn't have any parental support or encouragement so it is her own motivation) she is now working 6 months ahead. I've talked it over with the head and we are going to buy a trophy for her to keep because we are so impressed with her attitude.

PastSellByDate · 13/04/2012 11:12

mrz - as I've said before - where do you teach and can your school accept 2 children Y2 and Y4 tomorrow?

If only!

But seriously good on you! I think that's brilliant and I'm sure it isn't just the child - he/ she is getting support from you and is finding school an encouraging place to be learning in.

to you & your school

learnandsay · 13/04/2012 11:15

mrz, what does a child not having any parental support mean?

mrz · 13/04/2012 11:18

It means the child is neglected, hungry, dirty, poorly dressed and not spoken to and desperate for someone to notice her.

learnandsay · 13/04/2012 11:20

Oh my god.

But, wouldn't a decent new foster home be better than a trophy?

mrz · 13/04/2012 11:23

then there are her six siblings ...

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