If a primary school has a nursery is it better to start there?

[soundevenfruity]

So the question is quite self-explanatory, tried to condense it as mush as possible. I am eyeing up a state primary school for my DS which has a highly rated nursery, the attendance of which does not guarantee a place in reception. The school is oversubscribed and for a reason - the academic results are very good. My dilemma is that I think a year or so in Montessori would really suit my son's personality and I just like the idea behind this type of education. I am just not sure whether it would disadvantage DS if he does get into the school and everybody has already bonded and he will be an outsider. What would you do?
PS There is a Montessori school nearby and it seems to be quite popular as well.

To be honest I don't think it makes any difference at all. Friendship groups at reception age are very fluid and not all children who get a place for the reception class will have come through the nursery, children of working parents for example who will probably have been in private nursery or with childminders and there will be others like you who feel a different, or no nursery is best for their child.
Out of the 24 children who started reception with my dd 21 of them (including dd) had come through the village pre school. By the end of the first week of school my dd had formed close friendships with 2 of the 'new' girls. My dd is now in Y2, she still has strong friendships with these girls even though one of them now lives thousands of miles away in a different country! By the first half term of their reception year you would never have known which were the 'new' families and which were the old. I would send your child to the best nursery setting for them and not worry about being a 'new' kid when starting school, it makes little difference.

I agree with Roadkill (Being a teacher as well as a Mum to 3 who went to a Nursery none of their Reception peers went to).
At Reception age children move in and out of friendships and often just play with whoever is near them. There's no problem with children moving into Reception not having been at Nursery with peers.
Where I last taught, probably 25 of the 30 Recpetion children had been in Nursery, but you'd never know which were the new ones, unless you'd worked in the Nursery class the previous year.

no, kids make friends easily at this age, and at nursery age many still just play alongside anyway.

Imo it is better to send to a dedicated nursery where the focus is on nuresery, rather then a nursery attatched to a school where the nursery stuff has to fit around everyone else and often comes last in the large list of school priorities.

All the kids at my old school who went to the Montessori nursery instead of the school nursery are doing very well academically even years later.

It must be a coincidence - but every single kid I know who went there is doing 'very well' at school.

So - send him to the best nursery you can. Same as you'd send him to the best school you could.

Thank you, everybody. I will concentrate on choosing a nursery then.

I think I have to take a different take on this one although our position is slightly different as we are in Scotland and so do two years at nursery. My 3 ds's have all gone to the same primary school but the nursery has only been open for five years so only available for ds3.

Ds1 went to a private nursery with a lot of small groups and 1 to 1. He found the transition to large school classes very difficult. He was later dx with ADHD which would have been picked up at the school nursery.

Ds2 went to a local playgroup and a childminder where he took a long time to settle. He also took a long time to settle at school. If he could have gone to the school nursery he would have found moving into P1 easier.

Ds3 started at the school nursery. He went into P1 last summer. About 3/4 of the children went to the nursery and whilst I would agree that most children settle in quite quickly it is an advantage not to have to settle in at all. Our nursery have free flow throughout the nursery and P1 classrooms initially for an hour each day and now down to an hour a week to help with transition. The nursery go to school concerts, assemblys, have school lunches in the dinner hall and P.E. in the gym so nothing was strange for him. The greatest benefit, I feel, was not just that he new the staff and the school but that they new him.

Having said all that (sorry it's so long) as our catchment school we were guaranteed a place so he started nursery there knowing he would be staying there for 9 years!

knew not new

Riiiight, so not such a clear cut. I will try to the school after holidays to check what percentage of reception goes through their nursery. A lot of it is about DC personality, I suppose.

I agree with others that it makes little difference really - and the likelihood is that some of other children at the Montesorri nursery will come to school too, surely? We put our DS into the school nursery (even though it was a real pain only having three hours a day and needing to organise wrap around) because we had just moved house and didn't want him to do six months in one place and then move again to start school. About half of his year group came from the nursery, about a quarter from one or two private nurseries and the other quarter hadn't been in nursery or had only just moved here.

While I agree with what others have said about the "newbies" settling in really quickly and making friends, I am glad that my two DSs went to the school nursery before starting primary. They went part-time then full-time from age 3, so by the time they started primary just before age 5 they knew the school very well, they were really well prepared for primary as they used the same lunch hall for the last term, regularly spent time in the primary classes and playground etc in preparation. Some of the older primary children would come to the nursery and read to the children etc, so there were lots of familiar faces when they started in Reception. We had no angst about starting "big school", it was basically just going to the same place but entering through a different door.
I think you should visit both and get a feel for them and only you can decide which will suit your DS best.

We have mixed and matched. Dd1 went to local preschool, was only one to go to her school. About 2/3 had been to the nursery, but she settled in quickly. Some of the children who had been to the nursery didn't get places, their parents were really upset that their child had to move and break up friendship groups, cos people like me lived closer! This was the main reason why we didn't send dd1 there, because I felt it would be hard explaining to a 4 year old why her friends could stay and she couldn't. It was hard enough explaining why the children at preschool were all going to different schools.

Dd2 we knew would get a place so she went to the school nursery, and hated it. We were happy, and it seemed nice, most other children were begging to stay longer, but she just didn't enjoy being away from me and basically interacting with other children. I was concerned (as were the staff) about how she would settle into school, but she loves it. If she had been in a different place I would probably have been glad of a new start, but she also doesn't cope well with change, at least there she knew all the routines, and was proud to show off her knowledge to the 'new children'.

Ds will go to dd1 preschool first then move to school preschool once he is old enough and there is space. I think he will love it, as he already acts as if he owns the school anyway.

After all my ramblings, I think it can help with the transition and knowing the ropes etc, and it is nice to be involved with the school and dd1 was able to pop in and visit dd2 who was next door. I know that if a child is upset then they will send for a sibling.

I think though that for a first born, unless you are fairly sure that you will get a place in the school, it adds an extra layer of stress for you in applying, and for your child. Also if dd2 had been our first we might have been tempted to go to a diffferent school, whereas actually they both love the school, and other things have emerged along the way which make me think she might have found it tough wherever she went. Do check with the school, you probably will find that quite a large proportion stay, because siblings often go there and then get places in the school. New faces though are generally more exciting at reception level (dd2 friends are 'new'). If you can ask if they have any info on how far away the furthest admitted to reception was etc so you have an idea for your chances, but I think unless you live next door and there aren't many siblings, I would be tempted to go to the other nursery if you like it better. It really won't affect whether you get a place in reception.

Oh I will add (to my very long post), that some of the nursery children (mainly the first borns) did find it hard to move to school. They weren't used to staying all day or going in without parents (after first few weeks settling in). Their teachers from nursery whom they loved were still there but not theirs. They had to wear uniforms instead of their own clothes. The nursery is a bit of a bubble in school so they had to get used to bigger children. Parents who might have had a more laise faire position in terms of nursery attendance now had to get them there earlier 5 days a week every week. For dd1 we just explained it as new place, new rules. Dd2 just loves rules anyway so embraced the increasing structure and was relieved that she was now properly in the school rather than her inbetween nursery status.

The key thing to take into consideration is that being in a nursery gives no advantage when it comes to getting a school place, unless the admission criteria some how gives some priority.
I have lost count of the number of appeals where parents come to appeal saying my child is in the nursery and they will be heart broken if they do not get into the school. Almost invariably they are also disappointed with the outcome of the appeal.
It is something that you do need to consider.

If it helps my dd1 went to a completely different nursery school and had no issue at all moving to her P1 class - we moved to a different city. My dd2 goes to a nursery school attached to a primary school but our first choice primary school isn't that one. In her nursery school the children are going to around 5 different primary schools.

My DS1 didn't go to the his school nursey - most of the other children in his reception class did so - he was fine

I am feeling nervous now. Can't think what DS is going to make if all the transitions. They are quite adaptable at this age but I do wish formal schooling started 2 years later.

Most of them cope absolutely fine whatever situation they are in, and by the first half term the class are fairly integrated. The examples I gave are just that, they are fine now, but just highlights that going to school even when it just involves moving classroom can be a big deal for some children whatever the situation. They still need to be prepared for the changes. I guess the other thing to ask is how many of the montessori nursery go to the montessori schoool. Dd1 was a bit sad that virtually all of her preschool friends were going to another school because they lived too far from her oversubscribed school to get a place by about three weeks she was fully immersed in school life.

There is no right answer in your situation. If we had known dd1 definitely had a place in the school - that nursery would probably have been quite good for her, but I'm still glad that as we didn't know we didn't send her there, as I think that would have been worse for her. Hopefully wherever he goes it will boost his confidence so he can handle his next transition.

Can you do part time at both? I work in Reception class - transition depends on personality IMO.

just remember reception (and nurserey) is NOT formal school -at most my DS had 2 1/2 session a day sitting and being taught things - the rest of it its play and very like nursery sessions
it is really hard to tell what children will find hard or not - if you like the other nursery better I would go for it - assume you have visited both

DD went to a different nursery to reception and she was fine. They normally mix the afternoon and morning classes anyway so whilst quite a few may have gone to nursery they won't know each other.