Which kind of primary school is best for a child with selective mutism?

[jenrose29]

The two primary schools I have applied to for my daughter, who I suspect is soon to be diagnosed with selective mutism, are very different and I am unsure which would be best for her. One is a small village school, only ten children are admitted into the reception class. However, reception, year 1 and year 2 all share a large classroom. DD's birthday is in September and she is very advanced, so not sure if being with older children too might give her confidence as she realises she is clever and might come out of herself a bit more? The second choice of school is a large school in town, there are two reception classes which each have around twenty children. The classes tend to be divided by ability, and as my daughter hasn't spoken at all in nursery she has been assessed as knowing nothing; therefore she would most likely be placed with the youngest children where she would be held back. Which do you think sounds better for a child with SM?

If she's in with year 1's and 2's and still not talking then they may intimidate her further and she'll still be assessed as knowing nothing!

Personally I'd go for the larger town school. She maybe initially placed with the lower ability children but this may boost her confidence and make her feel like she can speak out if nobody else knows the answer.

How do you know she's 'advanced' just for curiosity?

At the moment she attends a nursery school with 3-4 year olds and she is far ahead of her friends yet it hasn't helped her to be able to speak out so not sure if that'd work at primary school. She can write the whole alphabet, spell and write lots of words, she is reading, she can count into the hundreds...I'm not bragging, she is just naturally bright but is bored at school at the moment.

I would talk to the schools and discuss your concerns about your daughter and see how you feel about the way they will handle her needs. I think you will need to go with your gut feeling about which school is actually going to support her better here. Maybe if it still isn't obvious to you after that then she could take a look at them herself and talk to you about where she feels she will be happier.

I wouldn't worry about her being held back as such, a good school will be responsive to your child's needs anyway. I would ask them both how they plan to support her and choose the one who gives the best answer.

My gut instinct would be to go for a larger school rather than a smaller one, just because it offers more variation in terms of the adults she will come into contact with. But then I am a primary school teacher and I have noticed that parents seem to instinctively prefer smaller schools and teachers prefer larger ones.

I would go and speak with the staff at both schools, take your daughter along, see how comfortable you both feel. As a nursery nurse (18 yrs ago) I looked after a little girl (4yrs) who never spoke, it was in a day nursery, now known as a Childrens Centre. It was a small group with not more than 10 children. As a staff team we made this little girl feel safe and secure in our care, her mum was unsure about leaving her but we built up a good relationship. After 5 months or so she began whispering in my ear (can I play with the sand etc) which was a huge step, her mum was delighted! I was only temporary at the nursery and was moved on. About 2 yrs ago I was driving around town and stopped a lady for directions, it was this little girls mum. After realising who she was I asked after G, she pointed over to a beautiful young lady pushing a pram, "there she is" she exclaimed "with my new grandaughter!"

beautifulgirls - when DD and I went to look around the larger one and she was busy playing, I spoke to the Headteacher about my concerns that DD may have SM and he said that it wasn't unusual for children not to speak etc. DD has been in a few different nursery/school enviroments in the past 2.5 years and has never spoken. She is very happy at nursery school which she has been attending since Sept, she goes in fine and has never been upset but she has also never spoken to any adults there. After 3 months there I queried it and keep being told to 'give her more time' but it is frustrating as how much time do you give before her not talking is ingrained? When the Head at the bigger primary school said that, it just made me feel like they'll leave it at least 6 months to allow for settling in time before thinking it could be an issue, at which point she'll be almost 6 years old and will be missing out on a lot at school due to being deemed to not know anything. She has looked at both schools and preferred the larger one, but then she picked her nursery school and really likes it there - but it doesn't change the fact that she doesn't talk there.

Any good school will coax it out of her without putting any emphasis on it. She does sound bright but the school can't acknowledge what she's doing if they don't hear it for themselves. If I were you I'd concentrate on getting her talking before forcing the school to realise how much she can potentially give them

I'm not fussed about whether they know what she can do or not, it's just that she comes back from school very hyperactive as she has been bored all day. At the moment, she behaves very well at school but I don't want her boredom to change into bad behaviour as it goes on for longer. I don't know what to do with regard to getting her talking at school; I don't put any pressure on her/emphasis on the not talking, she is happy and chatty at home, she isn't anxious at all about going to school, she has lots of friends etc. She just goes quiet as soon as an adult is in earshot. I must say I'm not particularly happy with her teachers approach to it - she is quite demanding and, in my opinion, rude to my daughter. I.e. They were making mothers day cards and she asked DD if she would like to use pink or purple paint. DD pointed to her preference. Teacher told her she wanted her to tell her out loud or she wouldn't be making one. DD just shrugged and didn't make one. Similarly, there was a sponsered obstacle race at school. DD had one turn round and wanted another turn, she was staring at her teacher willing her to let her (all of the other children had several turns) but because she wasn't asking, her teacher didn't let her. My daughter notices that she is treated differently as a result of not talking, but seems to accept that although it upsets her.

I'm sure her staring at her teacher and willing her to let her have another turn was obvious to you but if she doesn't speak to her teacher then how would her teacher know that? I have a couple of friends who's children have SM. One actually recorded her DD chatting away about the topic she was obsessed with at that time and the teacher couldn't believe how chatty she was or how much she knew. Maybe that would work with you?

If they haven't heard her talk then they've only got your word for how advanced she is

Assuming both schools have a good positive inclusive & understanding attitude towards your daughters needs then i would go for the small village school.
It may be that it is easier for all the school staff & the school become familiar to your dd far quicker in a small school.
the lower pupil to child ratio will also make it easier for the teacher to be able to fully assess her abilities.
The teacher will be able to get a good feel for her ability even without speach.
My son is in yr4 & it is only in the last 6-8 months that he has began speaking openly in class.

I'm not expecting her teacher to know, it is the fact she is excluded from things that I think is unfair. Her teacher asked every single other child if they'd like another turn except DD. Her teacher came for a home visit before DD started school and heard plenty from DD to know she is advanced, it is only at school that she won't speak. I've offered to go into school to try and encourage her to speak to adults/try and help her teacher be able to assess her at least but she's said no and that she thinks she'll 'snap out of it.' I spoke to the SENCO at her school who said to give the issue more time, both in December and in Feb when the issue was ongoing. I spoke to DD's GP and he said to take her to see him if she still hadn't spoken at school in a further 6 months - that was in December, so by which point DD will be finished school for summer and the issue will be transferred to primary school. I don't feel like giving it more time will solve anything, but if that's what the SENCO and GP advise, what else can I do?

I think you need to take some info into both schools and ask to speak to the SENco - which school did your daughter like best?

There was a lovely programme on telly a couple of months ago that included a child with SM. They didn't say so explicitly, but I would guess from the level of support that the parents had paid for S&L therapy (it would be lovely if I were wrong). Anyway, it was all terribly simple, but people-intensive. The therapist visited the child at home and places where she would talk normally. Then in school they were in a small room first with Mum included and then 1:1. Then in a classroom with no other children ... and so it went on, with baby steps of progress all the time.

This is an anxiety-related condition (whatever she is saying to you) and it is stopping her developing and stopping her learning and may be the reason that she is "bored" at school. I would suggest where she is now you need to work much more closely with the teacher as it would be really helpful to have things in place before she moves to school. The nursery should not assess her as knowing nothing, they should fill in assessment with you in the same way as they would with a child with EAL. What I think she needs is a S&L referral and the nursery can do that.

She cannot go through life not talking to adults at school, so you need to choose the school that is going to give you the best support to sort this out. The younger she is, the quicker the problem will be sorted. Early Years is not covered by a school's normal SEN money, so the school could apply for extra help for your child - in our LA we also have a pot of "emergency" short term funding. But the school needs to know what is going on and work closely with the nursery to get this in place. If she were coming into my class, I'd make sure that she had an extended transition with lots of visits during the summer term.

I've taught two children with SM, and my son was, for a while, a school-indiced selective mute.

I don't think that the setup of classes, or the number of children, or how they group the children academically, is important UNLESS you think your DD's SM is triggered by her feeling bored or alternatively overchallenged. (My DS became selectively mute essentially through terror at the chaos in his classroom - he's on the autistic spectrum, though mild - and so when he moved school it was critical to find a school that placed an emphasis on behaviour and was extremely calm and orderly)

What will matter is the number of staff, particularly support staff, the amount of training each member of the support staff receives each year, the expertise of the SENCo and how pro-active the school is wrt SEN, partnership woth parents, and whether the school is focused on 'the whole child' or narrowly on academics.

The school I was teaching in when I taught one of the selective mutes was exceptionally nurturing. The TAs were experienced, and quite a lot of money was available for their training so one of them immediately went on training related to interventions and support for selective mutism. 'Intervention' time for TAs was timetabled (ie they were not in the class all the time, quite a lot of their time was timetabled for small roups or 1 to 1 interventions) and so specific time was allocated for the TA to work with the child with selective mutism. Parents were encouraged to bring in recordings of what the child had said at home e.g. in response to homework topics, and playing these was a normal part of classroom discussion etc etc.

What you need to know from these schools you are considering is what their approach will be to your DD if she remains selectively mute. You will need to speak to the SENCo in detail. It may be that one or the other has experienced a child with SM. If not, ask them to outline how they think that they would approach it, and also ask them how they typically approach a child with SEN - how long does it take them to bring in specialist help, for example, how many times has a member of staff been on specific training related to a particular condition, what is the movement on and off the SEN register, how are interventions for particular children delivered and are they timetabled for all support staff? You should gradually build up a picture of the school's whole approach to a child who presents on arrival as 'outside the norm' and it is that, not the class setup or the size of the school, that should guide your choice.

"She cannot go through life not talking to adults at school"

One of the selective mutes I have taught still does not speak to adults at school (the child has now moved on from us to the next school). The child signs for basic needs, writes, reads aloud from a book, but does not speak. They are still learning, because of appropriate support.

Thinking this through a bit more...

I think that there are 3 questions to think about:

• Which school has an atmosphere in which your DD is most likely to start speaking spontaneously? (There may be no answer to this one, unless there is a clear 'reason' behind her current SM as there was behind my son's)

• Which school is most likely to put effective interventions into place rapidly to address her SM in school (both through the use of internal expertise, access to external training and rapid referral to ourside agencies)?

• Which school is most likely to enable her to learn effectively even if she remains a SM throughout her time there (the child I referred to above left us on mainly expected levels for her age despite never having spoken in school, because she was enabled to show what she knew in other ways)?

jenrose - haven't got much time now but just to say sympathies, the way your DDs nursery teacher is behaving sounds awful.

Have you read / got the Selective Mutism Handbook ?

There are some pages in there which you could photocopy and give to the nursery - they explain the syndrome and give advice to teachers.

I agree with teacherwith2kids, that it's about finding the school which will deal with it best.

My DD's best friend has been selectively mute throughout nursery, but is now in reception at a wonderful school. They got the EP in very quickly, assessed her, agreed some strategies with parents and other teachers, and have had an amazing effect on her. She still has her quirks in the classroom, but was recently confident enough to go down to the headmaster's office and ask for something.

Her teacher had no experience of SM, but was happy to admit this and get advice.

Thanks for all of your replies, they're really helpful :)

justaboutisnowakiwi DD has only met her HV once, she came to do a home visit when we first moved to the area just over a year ago. DD was SO friendly to her, HV thought she was adorable and said she 'radiated happiness' :) I spoke to her then about DD not having spoken at her previous nursery and she thought it might have been to do with her father and I having separated, but the separation is over 2.5 years ago now so may well be worth talking to her again.

RiversideMum I saw that programme too but not sure if that approach would work with DD (though obviously I'd be open to try anything!) She is really confident and chatty with the other children, her TA even said that she is often the leader of her group of friends and on odd occasion she will continue playing in front of the TA but talking far less and only to her friends. But with the other adults she goes completely silent as soon as she sees them anywhere near her. I suggested to her teacher that she utilises the TA that my daughter is more comfortable with to try and coax her to talk/to carry out assessments but the teacher said it wasn't appropriate...!

teacherwith2kids I won't know if she has been accepted into both schools until the end of the month - is it best to wait until then to approach them regarding the issues?

zzzzz I thought using video would be a really good way to communicate with the teacher as she really doesn't know my daughter at all and I think doesn't like her much as she sees her as awkward and purposely difficult, rather than for the chatty and outgoing little girl she is. However, the teacher does not think there is anything I/she should be doing and that she will just 'snap out of it.'

GlendragonParade Yes I've looked through the handbook, thank you :) The SENCO seems well aware of SM but just insists that we should 'give her more time' - even though my daughter will no longer be there in a few months!

im a teacher and I had a child in my class with SM a couple of years ago. She would talk at home but not in school. It was spotted in nursery, where she would not speak at all to adults, only to her friends. Then she came to me (I teach rec) and her mum had her referred to speech therapy at the same time, who did nothing really just came and observed her and agreed the diagnosis. I didnt really know what to do so did lots of research and discovered this:
-find the point/trigger where talking stops eg might be the school gate, walking in the school door
-than the plan was to start trying to move these markers so that it became acceptable to talk once past the gate, then the yard, then the door etc (sorry cant quite remember how this was actually done)
anyway I started recording when the child would talk and who to and weirdly as i started doing this she started to talk more (she didnt know I was monitoring her), i discovered she would talk in certain parts of the room and would start to talk to one adult - me. We were very laid back and didnt push the talking. It was difficult to assess her on the eyfs profile as so much is done on talking so I relied on her mums assessments on what she could do. Well the year went on and she talked a little in school to selected people. Then she went into year one and talked normally straight away to anyone and everyone! it was very strange! We think the trigger for not talking must have been connected to our room as nursery and rec share but year one is in a new classroom elsewhere.
sorry im not sure that helps youre question but thought you would like to know there is light at the end of the tunnel. We are a very small school of less than 50 pupils. She is now in Y4 and flying!!!

I know 2 kids with SM, one is partial & only recently recognised as having SN (speaks to children but not really to adults). The other is full on & barely speaks to anybody (at school). y5 & y6. Both doing okay or better in school.

From what their parents tell me, I would think try to find a school which had 30 and only 30 as its intake each year. And low staff turnover.
So that they get totally used to the other children being consistent, and the adults. Any smaller or any bigger you get mixed up classes each year, no long term consistency in their predominant daily social mix.

If my only choices were OP's, I would go for bigger school, more diverse experiences & better funded to deal with any SN.