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Primary education

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Any experience of dc very able/ 'gifted' early on but levelling off?

38 replies

Yorkshiremother79 · 31/03/2012 16:52

Dd1 was very able at maths in her early years and was at least two years ahead of 'average' in reception and year 1. At the end of year 1 she was doing things like multiplying 17x 24, knew all her tables with little effort and that sort of thing, added three digit numbers in her head. She would breeze through new concepts at the first go.

In year 2 now, she sometimes makes silly mistakes/ rushes things and does not seem to be progressing that well. At parents evening this week, I was told she would probably get a low level 3 by the end of the year.

Before I get accused of being desperate for her to be AG&T and not happy with how she is, it is not that. I am simply confused as to how she has gone from being very, very able to merely bright.

I confess I gave her a Sats level 3 paper to do and she didn't do that well at all. Just scraped a level 3 score.

Is she still very able but has got into bad habits e.g. rushing things as she thinks it's easy when it's not if she gets things wrong. Or could she have levelled off and is now bright but not very bright/ gifted at maths (bad term I know)?

The teaching at school seems geared to the average child if that is relevant. Ofsted criticised them for not challenging more able kids in the inspection last year.

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mumblesmum · 01/04/2012 11:59

I'm not so sure about teachers paying less attention to the high achievers. They also have targets to achieve, so a teacher can't really leave them to 'coast'.

ragged · 01/04/2012 12:18

It's lack of practice for DS, he had all his times tables up to 12x12 down pat, and he could extend it to things like 60*70 to get correct answer, or figure out 1/4 of 13 quickly, etc. All done mentally (not on paper). This was Feb-May of y2. Because he just loved to do mental maths at every opportunity, he got very very good at it.

Now he's y3, one year on, and can't do any of it quickly & struggles with items that would have been instantly answered last year. Yet teacher says he is still one of the best in class for mental maths. So I know it will come back quickly as he gets older, and when he actually needs to know those things. Even the top ability Pupils are still working hard on same times tables in y5, plenty of time for DS to rehash & solidify.

Yorkshiremother79 · 01/04/2012 23:21

I think I've just twigged (feel like shouting Eureka!) about something to do with her making mistakes, thanks to another thread. She skim reads really quickly (as do I so I understand what she's doing) and sometimes doesn't take things in as well as she could. I think she is reading any wordy maths questions like this and not taking enough care about what she needs to do, so then makes silly mistakes.

Any ideas on how I can tackle this other than simply asking her to slow down?

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mumblesmum · 01/04/2012 23:42

1.Read the question twice.

  1. Highlight the important numbers
  2. Highlight the important words (e.g. altogether, how many are left?)
  3. decide on the operation (s) to use
  4. write the calculation (s)
  5. solve the calculation (s) mentally/written method
7 check the answer (using inverse op, or a different method) 8 write the answer out in full (e.g. 6cm) having read the question again.
AllotmentLottie · 02/04/2012 01:01

Same as above, but our school use the acronym RUCSAC (seems to appealsto the kids):

R = read. Read the word problem.
U = understand or underline important parts of question.
C = Choose calculation - What operation and the 'number sentence'. Also need to decide on the units the answer will be in.
S = Solve. Carry out the chosen calculation.
A = Answer. Write out the full answer including units.
C = Check. Check to see if it really makes sense. Carry out any inverse operation calculations etc.

asiatic · 02/04/2012 05:51

actually, some people just find maths boring, how many of us do?

Children's development isn't linear, and it isn't even. They move forward, forget, and move sideways. bckwards, and forward again. Also being ahead of average by exactly the same amount sounds like a lot in year 1,but less in year 2, dues to it being a smaller % of the amout covered.

ALL children do better with one to one attention, so sshort regular work sessions at home with a parent will progress a child faster than being moved into the best school, IF fast progress is what you want.

justonemorethread · 02/04/2012 06:13

Posting from phone so keeping it short. Does anyone think this has anything to do with the year 3 curriculum? I taught it once and realised how much it wad repeating yr 2 stuff, to help consolidate I guess, but not great for the brighter group. Possibly this was down to the school.

nooka · 02/04/2012 06:37

There is research evidence to suggest that early advantages are not always maintained, in just the same way that late starters can catch up. I have a really interesting book called NurtureShock and there is a chapter on the problems with academic selection at a young age (in the US children can be segregated in to G&T stream as young as 5) mainly because it is an inaccurate assessment of future academic success. Their suggestion was that such differentiation should be done before the age of 10/11 because there is so much brain development going on and it happens in quite an uneven and variable way.

So it might be that your dd has leveled out, or it might be that her brain is having a lull before it makes it's next leap forward. Or she might have a block on some key aspects in maths that are important right now, or be bored, not very well taught or somethign quite else. In some ways it doesn't really matter, supporting her at home may help regardless.

PastSellByDate · 02/04/2012 10:46

Yorkshiremother79:

I just read your query about word problems in math. Agree with mumblesum & AllotmentLottie but would add try and do these problems with your DD and have her explain the steps to you.

A gentle 'are you sure?' - or the patience to let her go down the wrong path, get the wrong answer and then gently ask 'Does that look right' will help her learn. Most importantly it will help her learn through mistakes (which is a really important life skill - it's important to understand that learning can come from trying something, not getting it quiet right, but then going back and doing better next time).

HTH

LilyBolero · 02/04/2012 10:56

I think there's lots going on here (from what you've posted, obviously you can't tell really unless you know the child really well), but things I would be thinking about;

i) She may well be an early developer - this doesn't mean she isn't bright or able, or any of those things, but it may mean that she does have times when she plateaus, and the gap seems to close with the other children - and if they are later developers then this can be exaggerated, children definitely learn in developmental spurts!

ii) It sounds like she is very good at manipulating numbers, without necessarily having grasped the concept of what she is doing - I got through A Level maths, got an A, with exactly this approach - I had very little understanding of what I was doing, but knew what the mechanical approach to each sort of question should be, and could then manipulate the numbers correctly. This might explain why word problems seem harder - if she hasn't yet clicked what she is actually doing when she multiplies two numbers together etc. You can practise word problems all the time when you're out, just with simple calculations about things you see - eg, instead of saying things like 'what's 20-3?' try saying 'oh, look, there's three cars waiting at that traffic light, I wonder how many more we'd need to make 20....', or that sort of thing (that's a very basic example, sounds like she'd need more complex ideas).

I do think maths is divided up into the 'conceptual' and the 'numerical', and you need a grasp of both really!

iii) WRT silly mistakes, get her to do a 'sanity check' - try doing the question the other way round - so, using the above example, if she's done 20-3, and said 16, then say, ok, so what's 16+3? And she can check it that way, because you're less likely to get them wrong both ways round!!!

I really wouldn't worry, a level 3 is fantastic at age 6 which is what she'll be when they do the SATs, and certainly when my older kids did them, they didn't differentiate levels within the level 3, though this may have changed.

LilyBolero · 02/04/2012 10:58

It's definitely true that later developers can catch up. The number of people who told me that they could tell their child was 'very bright' because they talked early - when ds2 couldn't say anything virtually at age 3, he even saw a SALT a few times, but he is super bright, and has overtaken all the 'early talkers' in terms of literacy.

Will probably all change again as they get older! But is interesting to observe!

AllotmentLottie · 02/04/2012 11:33

LilyBolero, agree, my son is a definite "late bloomer". He was assessed for SEN in reception as his reading was coming so slowly. Now in Year Four, he is one of the best readers in his year.

Yorkshiremother79 · 02/04/2012 11:43

Great advice - thank you all. Especially Lily. Not sure your point number 2 applies that much - if we do any wordy problems verbally she is fine and very good at them. I'm sure it's more to do with reading the question too fast than that. But having that idea is still useful as all this helps me work out what might be going on.

That's lovely to hear Allotment! I hope his early experience didn't damage his confidence. Very interesting too as it does go to show everything can change in quite a short space of time.

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