Do Private Schools normally use NC levels to assess children?

[FuntoLearn]

We are considerig a move from State to private in Year 4 and are interested to find out about in-school year assessments.
The school states in its literature that its broadly follows the National Curriculum, but its not clear if this means specific NC levelling? We want to get an idea of what happens elsewhere in the Private system?
Already been told DD is prediicted to get Level 4 at end Year 3 - so we want to see how this will work if she moves to another school.

Also are Private School generally ahead academically compared to State Schools?

Thank you in advance for your replies.

It is hard to say.

Some use NC levels, some don't.

Same for whether ahead or not - some are, some aren't. Can depend on how academic they are, if they are selective or even just down to specific intakes.

DD's school uses NC levels for some things - think English is NC levelled, but not for others. They don't report NC levels though, although the English teacher has referred to them in a parent's evening. They have their own grading systems.
They are fairly academic and do well academically, but also have a mix of children - some working at very high levels, some working at expected levels for age. Those working below expected levels are given extra support to ensure they keep up.

None of mine use NC levels. The local GDST school does (and also sits SATS).

Presumably your dd would have a day's assessment at the private school, and that would give you some idea of where she sat within her peer group there?

Thank you.
If Private Schools are not using NC levels to assess, what do they use instead?
What type of grading system is used?

They may use their own grading system for attainment and effort, use their own exam systems or use other exam systems out there.

So long as they are being assessed by teachers in some way and their progress is known, then NC levels aren't needed.

My children ,youngest year5 get a twice termly effort and achievement mark for each of the core subjects ,basically C is working at a satisfactory level for their age ,B working mostly above the level etc,then they also get a number mark for effort so they might get a B2 for example which implies that although they are working above the level expected they could be working harder (DS1 has always joked that the aim is to get an A3 achieving at the top for no effort!) .You do have to bear in mind that this is based on their expectations which may differ from the NC levels.

We do also have termly parents evenings at primary level though so you are able to discuss in depth and for example in maths I can tell from his text book that he is working mostly at year 6 level (he likes maths!)

To be honest though I couldn't care two hoots about what the NC thinks he should be doing ,and i think this is the case for a lot of independent school parents.I want to know academically that he will pass the entrance exams for his chosen senior schools and that he enjoys his learning and is progressing and being stretched .My eldest in in year 13 now and i know from experience that you can get too hung up on levels etc

My middle son's school has NC levels and that is useful as he has SEN and it is useful to gauge his progress against a statistical average but we also gets stacks of other information as well so it is not the only focus

Neither of ours use NC levels - I have no idea what all the the stats in the many posts on here are about. One has parents' evenings and writen reports, but there is no means of tracking performance in an absolute or nationwide-relative basis. We do annually a nationally ranked literacy and maths test at my little one's school which is for the school, not us, but if we pester we can get the result. Not entirely easy to interpret though (a percentage number, without a general population comparison).
it is a bit of a frustration.

I mean "written". Sorry

DD's private primary does assess them on NC scales (for maths and English, at least), and I think puts them in reports once a year, but also has its own effort and achievement grades, and does other verbal/non-verbal reasoning etc tests.

I suppose they all help build up a broad picture of how she is doing, but what I really find much more useful is the fact that they actually write real reports which tell you how your child is doing, rather than the jargon-ridden cut-and-paste reports we used to get at the state primary, which told you nothing useful at all.

DS's private secondary doesn't bother with NC levels as far as I know.

DD's school doesn't use NC levels, but does use PIPs testing in addition to end of year exams from year 3 giving a ranking in the year. Again not really interested in NC levels as school is 3 to 18 GCSEs are our first target.

y6 DS had NC level for maths but nothing else.
I guess there was a sort of effort/attainment chart for all subjects too (my DC in state primary also had that).

for inde schools to publish NC levels their teachers have to attend LA moderation meetings and allow LA moderators into school so many choose not to even those that follow NC.

No ref to NC levels at all because they are an irrelevance. Grading every few weeks on exactly the same system as Mrs. Woodentop describes plus termly reports and exams in all subjects (English, Maths,French, Latin, History, Geography, Science, RS, Music) and class positioning at the end of Christmas and Summer term. Four classes in each year: top is the scholarship form, bottom the strugglers.

Boys at the top are working several years ahead of NC, whereas those at the bottom will be bumping along somewhere within the NC range of expectations

Vix - how many years ahead exactly for the scholarship kids?
Was it a non-selective school?

Eton publishes its scholarship papers on line - I'll see if I can find a link for you, then you'll see what at least some scholarship streams are teaching to.

Not been given levels at DC prep school apart from the EYFS scales. They use CATS and PIPS tests which are externally marked in alternate years to assess "potential" then benchmark against national averages and compare "potential" vs performance in school exams. That then steers towards certain secondary schools. Reality is far less scientific than it sounds though !

Here they are. These exams are sat in year 8.

Not all schools publish on-line their exam papers (for scholarships, or general entry of non-CE) but yo should be able to get specimens on request.

We get - termly reports up to Y3 (no quantative assessment/grading, just qualitative), Y4 onwards monthly work reports (each subject graded A-D for effort + comment), termly written reports from every subject teacher plus grade (%age) and class position (within form, not year) for effort, achievement and exam result (where applicable) - forms graded as others have described (top - scholarship; middle - passing CE; bottom - struggling/receiving a lot of learning support (although some in other forms may also be getting learning support)).

I have less than no idea how this relates to NC levels though

OP - I would imagine the school would assess your DD themselves and give you an idea of where she would fit - my DC's school is non-selective, but has assessment days for DC joining the school to decide which form they would best fit into.

what are you concerned about OP - where she will be vs her peers going in, or what the school will do for her? I don't know for sure, but I am not convinced that DS was massively "ahead" by Y4. As for the latter - as Babs says - ask them - what do they give a child over and above what a good state school can provide - I would suspect most of the answer would not be about absolute academic levels, though.

I think many private schools see it as good practice to report NC curriculum levels on the end of year reports.

I don't think they see them as essential Assessment for Learning, or let them stifle awe, wonder, creativity, etc.

Yorkshire School is only slightly selective: there is a test but just to make sure there are no problems with which the school can't cope and for initial streaming purposes. Difficult to measure where the scholarship boys are (DS is not one!) but in year 6 they are reading Jane Eyre and some of the year 8s have recently been doing some national maths medal which is generally for sixth formers.

My son is in the next stream down and they also do some interesting stuff. I think that the difference is less that they are "ahead" of NC than that the focus is much broader than the NC and there is no teaching towards SATs at 11. They do French from 8 and Latin from 9, English grammar is formally taught, history is chronological and deals with questions like the validity of sources- there are no projects (except for the summer hols). Music is taught as an academic subject.

Vixsatis

I'm sure it's just a case of knowing the system that you are in, and therefore by definbition NOT knowing about a different system, but as a state school teacher your statement "Boys at the top are working several years ahead of NC, whereas those at the bottom will be bumping along somewhere within the NC range of expectations" is genuinely confusing to me...

The National Curriculum for each Key Stage sets out the minimum expectations for each subject for each key stage in terms of 'Knowledge and Understanding' and 'Breadth of Study'. So I presume what you mean is that the boys in the 'top' levels of your school would be achieving e.g. the minimum expectations from the next Key stage up?

What makes it really confusing for a state school teacher is that, of course, the more able children in a state school do exactly the same. Those achieving above age related expectations will be achieving way above the minimum standards laid out in the NC. To give an example, my DS is working within level 6 for maths in year 6. Age related expectation would be for him to be achieving a mid level 4 - so he is currently working (along with several others in his absolutely normal state school Year 6 class) at the level 'expected' 3 years later.

That's why I always get confused about private school parents who say 'my child is working x years ahead' - some children in every primary school class in the state system are working several years ahead, that is absolutely normal.

"history is chronological and deals with questions like the validity of sources"

I do that with my Year 3s - in a tiny state primary with a challenging intake. We also do French from the start of Year 3 (age 7).

It is tricky to make valid comparisons,. as so few of us experience both systems simultaneously. I compare notes frequently with a friend who teaches the same year group in a private school. She uses far, far more worksheets, less ICT, does only whole class teaching and does only formal written 'summative' assessments, never 'formative' assessments to inform what she does in each lesson or series of lessons. I plan more, differentiate much more (I have to, I have a 5-6 year spread of ability within my class), do much more active learning, use much more ICT in very different ways, and moderate assessments much more across the school and between schools. The curricula we teach are similar, though she teaches much more Games within PE and she makes no links between subjects whereas we do a lot of cross-curricular planning (not to water down subjects, but to combine them in a way that is more coherent for the children).

Oh, and she does much less 'nurture' and 'social work' than I do.... but interestingly though our 'bottom' pupils are streets apart in their achievement (my 'bottom' pupil has moderate learning difficulties, hers is 'very slightly behind in some areas'), our 'top' pupils are achieving at very much the same level.