Impact of background on achievement

[lecce]

I have been looking at some other threads and thinking about research in this area and it has raised this question in my mind:

When it is said, as it frequently is, that social class/parental job etc, have a huge impact on the development and academic success of children, is this a passive or an active effect?

In other words, does growing up in a household in which books are read and discussed frequently, interesting outings take place and are discussed etc etc benefit dc, or is it the case that these kind of families do more of the active stuff - flashcards, tutors, workbooks etc?

"Plus hugely to do with parental expectations. Certain ethnic groups do vastly better than they should - really because they have ultra pushy parents."

IndigoBell, better than they should? How should us ethnic groups do then?

Attainment is determined by attitude, aspiration and application - of the parents/carers and the child. If you happen to have all the above AND money, you are doubly gifted

Disposition and attitude to learning is regarded as the best early indicator of future attainment in education

RaisinBoys - ethnic groups should on average do average, same as everyone else.

However statistically children from some ethnic groups do a lot worse than average, and some from other ethnic groups do a lot better than average.

Those are the facts.

My subjective opinion is that the difference is parental aspirations.

Lots of interesting replies here - as usual .

I ask because I am always worrying that we don't do enough with our dc. I suppose we are middle-class but clearly that alone won't guarantee succes for them.

I have always found flashcards, workbooks etc abhorrent but was starting to worry that I am wrong in this as ds (YR) is not exactly excelling from what I can tell. We do reading every night and try to get him writing but this is a huge struggle. Beyond that, we do what people above have mainly suggested - encourage him to follow his interests and facilitate him finding out about stuff he's interested in - dinosaurs, history, space etc. Is it enough?

I also feel guilty because, although we have a house full of books and dh and I love reading, we rarely read in front of the dc - there just never seems to be time. How can I show them I love reading when I am always too tired/busy to do it whenever they are around?

Likewise interesting conversations - we do have them but tends to be when the dc are in bed or busy playing and nothearing them (ds2 is only 2.6 so when he is around tends to demand attention).

Just having a wobble really - worrying that I'm letting the dc down in some way.

I certainly feel there are lots of people in this country stuck in dead-end jobs who could have done something more fulfilling and better paid had they come from a different background.

Raisin - Re Indigo's comments about ethnic groups doing better than expected, don't go looking for racism where none exist.

I am an ethnic minority. My parents were poor and uneducated. Yet my siblings and I have done better than expected considering our humble background.

I don't doubt that this is what Indigo meant

I think there can be a place for flash cards and work books in some circumstances, but they are nothing like as important as having conversations with your children., nad sharing experiences with them.

Children learn family and local history from their parents, for example, then when they sit in a history lesson they have some sort of framework in their head for it all to fit into. Gardening, cooking mending things, all link into science. shopping,bus timetavles, mapreading, obviously maths and geography. All of this can be done on a tiny income.

Reading together is the second most important. Toddlers who have learnt which direction to turn the page, and which side the first word on the page is on are at an advantage. This is quite apart from the grammar, vocabulary amd conversation skills thay will pick up, as well as the content. Children of 14/15 etc still enjoy being read to. I regualrly read scintific artivles to my sixthform class.

Of course, the biggest thing you can do for your children's academic development is talk to them all the time. Tiny babies can learn that a conversation is taking it in turns to make noises with our mouths,... right up to 18 year olds wanting to air their options before castingtheir first vote. The more you talk, discuss, recall, analyse, conclude, evaluate together the better your child will do in school. You are developing vocabulary, grammar, and higher order thinkig skills all the time, as well as knowledge and ability to see different view points.

Thanks PushedToTheEdge but as you can see Indigo clearly capable of speaking up.

Indigo commented that "certain ethnic groups do...better than they should"

This can clearly be interpreted in two ways.

If Indigo meant better than expected then Indigo should have said that.

Incidentally PushedToTheEdge there is no need for me to *"look for racism"

Sorry Raisen. I meant better than expected - as in better than average.

Because I expect all groups to do equally well. (including FSM kids) And they don't.

lecce, some of the most wonderfully fulfilled people I know do not earn a great deal. They do not define themselves or others by what they do or their earning potential, but by who they are. Some have wonderful jobs they love, some have seemingly boring (you might say dead-end) but essential jobs. They come from a range of backgrounds but all are educated, wise individuals.

You are clearly not letting your dc down. The very fact that you are asking the questions shows this.

Good luck. Push the enjoyment of reading - the little one's writing will come. I know! Been there.

Look at some of the background to the Early Years Foundation Stage and Every Child Matters- both are concerned with narrowing the inequality gap. Also look at Frank Field's poverty report.
If you are born into poverty you are more likely to stay in poverty- it's called the poverty trap and it has nothing to do with intelligence.

My expectation is that all children will fulfill their potential, and attend schools where they are taught by inspirational teachers who enthuse them with a love of learning, and come from homes where education is valued and prized. For many children this isn't the case. This isn't necessarily a class or money thing.

Where middle class parents may have the advantage is that they they often know how to manouvre themselves through our complicated education system, re.appeals for schools etc, and they may have access to individuals in professions who can offer dc work experience or internships.

In these situations obvious inequalities are exposed

I wonder what pushy parents think of having their children educated, in part, by staff who have their own children on FSM? ;) I have a 3 higher education qualifications, two NVQs plus A levels and work as a teaching assistant; my salary is so low that my children qualify for (but don't have) FSM and that applies to a lot of us at work.

reply to insancerre - it MIGHT have nothing to do with intelligence, it is connected with whatever reason the poverty happened in the first place, which MIGHT be connected to intelligence, or it might be attitude of parents, or parenting skills, or what ever else. In my experience it is SOMETIMES intelligence, but more often parents passing down a culture of entitlement, and teaching children how to lclaim benefits, etc. We have students who are genuinkly concerned that getting too many GCSEs might endanger their chances of being allocated a council flat, as they could be expected to get a job. Parents passing on a promiscuos (Sp?) lifestyle also leads to poverty being recyled. Thes are the main reaons I have seen for the "trap"

• less intelligence, being inherited ( inte3lligence isn't the most important thing in the world, but foes impact on educational success and life choices)

• Not wanting a career

• educatin disrupted by early parenthood.

( "Every child matters" is now obsolete)

I think that some of it has to be about aspiration and expectation. My family is middle class and pretty academic. The expectation at birth is that a bachelors degree is probably the minimum for education (my father set up funds for my two children's gap year as a birth present). dh's family is working class, and until very recently the expectation was that you left school as soon as you could to do something more useful. He was the first to go to sixth form, let alone university. A sizeable proportion of his family think he is a layabout for doing so.

Looking at my children's generation I would say that in the primary years you couldn't really tell the difference, they all (with a couple of exceptions) seemed bright and engaged, and their parents seemed proud of this. However a few years later and all the children in his family have much lower expectations and are going in a much more vocational direction. I don't know if this is parents, children or school, but I'm not sure it's just about intelligence or genetics.

Every child matters is now obselete? So the coalition government has solved the problem of social inequality then? Hurrah!

Raisin - I have been down this road enough times to recognise The Sign whether it is parents of children with behavioural problems or parents on low income or people who see racialism in innocent remarks.

Not that you give a fuck but engaging you further is going to be a waste of my time so consider yourself 'blanked out'.

The most deprived children enter nursery at 3 already behind their peers. It is the period 0-3 years that seems to be the key stage that predicts later achievement. It is not about flashcards though. To get the most benefit from education children need to be ready to learn - securely attached, able to play imaginatively and listen attentively.

inseccarre, I thionk it is more that the every child matters thing was 99% paperwork and caused hours of extra admin but didn't make any difference to the educational outcome for anyone.

Star girl, I agree

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9164287/Nursery-workers-so-illiterate-they-struggle-to-read-stories-aloud.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17496323

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/review-raises-concerns-over-preschool-teaching-skills-7584207.html

If you want to see what kinds of differences socio-economic status make, just read Meaningful Differences in the Everyday Experiences of Young American Children by Betty Hart and Todd Risley. It pretty much says it all. You'll find a summary of the book here www.childrenofthecode.org/interviews/risley.htm.

"Raisin - I have been down this road enough times to recognise The Sign whether it is parents of children with behavioural problems or parents on low income or people who see racialism in innocent remarks.
Not that you give a fuck but engaging you further is going to be a waste of my time so consider yourself 'blanked out'."

Oh dear, dear PushedToTheEdge, you've "blanked [me] out" and used "f**k" to expresss yourself when you ran out of other words. I'm !!! Be assured, I have considered myself "blanked out"

Oh, and "racialism" PushedToTheEdge??

lecce - show your interest in reading by reading them stories and making the stories sound exciting. And you'll find the having interesting conversations easier when your children are older, anyway, because they'll ask you a question which you start to answer and then realise that to answer it properly, there's something else you want to explain to put it into context... It's only when you have a 2.6 year old in the house that you're too tired to have interesting conversations in front of them! He won't be 2.6 forever.

SoundsWrite - Wow!

So, really everything is my fault (for not talking to my kids enough) and can't be changed (because they're older than 3)

Wow.

Why isn't this stuff told to new parents?