Small year size or larger?

[MollieO]

Choice is co-ed and 40 in the year or single sex and 12. Not sure how to decide.

I wouldn't go near a school with a class size of 12, let alone a year size of 12. Not nearly enough choice of friends!

I agree with Bonsoir. Also limited numbers may affect the possibility of employing enough specialist subject teachers - economics of numbers-budget

My DD is in a huge school (year group of 125) and it suits us down to the ground to be in a big school - lots of choice of friends and of extra curricular activities, as well as specialist teachers and a degree of choice of class teacher.

Totally agree with bonsoir and bigTilly.

Ds is in a school with 80 to 90 per year and I agree it is a bonus. Ds has lots of friends who are outside his class and the classes are mixed up each year to encourage this.

Ds is in a school with 80 to 90 per year and I agree it is a bonus. Ds has lots of friends who are outside his class and the classes are mixed up each year to encourage this.

Year size of 12 and single sex? I wouldn't want that for any of my DC. So 40 and boys and girls together sounds good (tho still on the small side; my DCs' schools have intake of 80)

I think I saw on another thread that you are looking at different schools where your DS may become a chorister - if there are few other differences between the schools in terms of where they go afterwards etc and how you felt about the schools when looking round, I would go for the larger co-ed one. I would imagine that a year size of 12 would mean it would be very choir focused (there would be very few non-choristers in the school I would presume) although that might not necessarily be a disadvantage.

My DSs go to a tiny school and we love it!

All the teachers know all the children and vise versa and it's got a real family feel.

However it is mixed and we wouldn't want them going to an all boys school.

Mollie,

It seems to me that it is unhelpful for you to think (and post threads about) each aspect of the proposed school for your son in isolation.

There seem to be lots of factors in play:

• Size of cohort.
• Single sex vs co-ed.
• Amount of boarding required, and debates around pastoral care within that.
• Location.
• Precise singing commitments.
• Quality of education provided by each school.
• Behaviour management.
• SENCo support.
• Destinations of leavers.
• Certainty of offer.

My advice would be to look at the whole thing 'in the round' and to balance up the different factors. Small cohort size vs amount of boarding / Singing commitments vs location / Quality of education vs SENCo support / Certainty of offer vs 'ideal' scenario vs current unsatisfactory school.

All other factors being equal, I would prefer not to send a child to s school with a year size of 12. However, would I send a child to a school with a year size of 12 which is otherwise a perfect fit vs one with a year size of 40 which is otherwise a poor fit? In that case I might well choose the 12.

There has to be more than those 2 factors (gender & class size).
My general prejudice is in favour of bigger rather than smaller, but 12 or 40 are both extreme.

Ragged, 40 is in the year not the class - I presume, because these are both private schools. I imagine that it is 1 class of 12 or 2 of 20.

teacher I don't know how to choose what would be the perfect fit for ds. Hence my questions. I'm not asking anyone to make a decision for me but there are individual elements that need to be considered.

Ds loved both and no doubt would be happy at either. Despite issues at his current school he has been happy his entire time there. My problem is that I don't know how to make the choice as neither can be compared to his current school so I have to decide which is better - smaller or larger.

The factors you list are very helpful but they are pretty equal other than year size, single sex or co-ed and the single sex is viewed as more academic by some.

At least I've managed to dismiss the notion of choosing a school that only contains choristers (and 6 in a year!) so I'm making progress

40 in a year group is really not that big, that's what there was in my private secondary school and I'd say it was perfect tbh. 12 in a year group seems too few to me.

If you put yourself into a room with 11 other people, there is a good chance you won't find anything you particularly like about any of them, let alone find someone you want to spend a significant portion of your youth with. I'd go for the bigger school because it's definatly not too big, and it gives your ds a better chance of making friends he really gets on with, rather than making friends with the people that are just there.

Beware the year group of 12! I work as a TA in a school where there is a year-group of 14 and it is divided as 9 in one gender and 5 in the other. In the group of 5 there are 2 who generally get on and who you could class as friends, but the other three are effectively total loners and have no close friends at school. In the other gender group of 10 there are cliques and arguments and some individuals who have been left out of any friendship groups since they started school. No amount of having better child-staff ratios makes up for it having a poor friendship/social network because the group is simply too small.

I 'think' I've regretted sending ds to a school where YR only had an intake of 15 although it is mixed and has an equal (bar 1) number of boys/girls, I don't know time will tell, but currently ds mixes with one boy from Y1 at playtime rather than any of his classmates and even though his teacher says he's popular ds plays alongside his classmates rather than with them he is however the oldest in his class and quite mature for his age so this plays a huge factor, I often am left wondering if he would have been better off in the school with an intake of 45 (two separate classes) as there possibly would have been a greater chance of him making friends with a greater selection. His school do however mix Y1 and Y2 so come September things may all change.

DS is in a single form primary school, so 30 in his year and class. Main advantage is that it's small enough that all the kids and teachers know each other, and probably mix more between the years than otherwise in the playground etc. Main disadvantage is that the number of parents is very small and so we end up doing lots of stuff PTA wise because there aren't many of us to share the tasks round.

There are lots more on both sides, but ultimately it's got to come down to the best school for your kids and for you

dd is in a year of 10. I was dubious to say the least when it went down to this number (started at 15). However, I have not come across any downsides so far. In fact it has been a godsend, as when 'd'h left at the beginning of the year, I was re-assured that the school would be able to pick up any issues quickly and they have. Not sure that this would have happened in a large year. She feels safe and secure in her friendships, in fact due to the size, their seems to be no pairing off or any of the falling out that you would associate at the age (7). They all seem to move around playing together and are all very close.
It depends on your child.

My daughter has 3 in her year at Primary School and my son is at Secondary with a year of 21 (2 classes) both mixed. That is the choice here in the middle of nowhere and they are both very, very happy. Don't underestimate the amount of extra time and attention given to pupils in small classes and years. I teach in my son's school and we really can offer a bespoke education on the state. However, there are downsides: team games suffer and after school activities are limited. But, not having a wide choice of friends has its positives. Pupils have to get on with everyone and mix with everyone and don't become part of cliques linked with activities or subject choices. Good luck in your decision making. I am sure, whatever you decide, he will be happy as you are making such an effort to make the right decision.

My other worry is that in our area the two High Schools are single sex so ds will be heading off to Secondary school only knowing approx 7 boys, yes he will know some of the older boys but still, just something else to think about.

larger is better
BECAUSE
they can switch friends
there is more scope for high and low achievement
AND
if they ever go to a state secondary (cohort of up to 300) it will be less of a shock

DD is in a school year of 8, the PAN is only 8, and there is only 16 in her class - mixed YrR and Yr1. The entire school only has 55 children! I think the small class size suits DD perfectly, the school is very nurturing and inclusive and she is very confident and fits in so well. The secondary school it feeds into is a large school (PAN 240), but they are used to small primary school cohorts and they run lots of activities and information sessions which the older KS2 children attend to prepare them for secondary school. We live in a very rural area and many of the primary schools are as small as ours, so I don't feel DD will be disadvantaged by being in such a small school.

We have a similar dilemma

DD is currently in Year 3 of Primary School - (she is in all top sets)
She will be moving to new school in yr 4.

Choice of...
Private single sex school with 2 classes of 15 (expensive but very academic).
or...
Oversubscribed outstanding state school with 6 classes of 30 (so 180 in all)
It is very good academically for bright children and has maths streaming.

Currently in a state school - 2 classes of 30.

My DCs are also in a state school with PAN of 8. There are lots of friendships across year groups. We haven't had any problem with it. It's lovely and nurturing, and with year groups that small children don't get forgotten or overlooked. We are also very rural, but could have chosen to put them into a school with a PAN of 60 in the town next to us. I saw the throng of reception children going back into their classrooms after playtime and thought that my child would feel lost there, so we sent them to the little school and haven't looked back.