How can we get DS to write.

[FatDan]

Went to the parents evening last night and got the same feedback as usual about DS, who's almost 8. He's keen, polite and bright but getting him to produce the goods i.e. do the writing, is damn near impossible. After an hour his classmates might have produced a couple of paragraphs on "Roman Soldiers", or whatever they're studying, and he's barely finished a sentence. He's always been like this and is the same at home. The difference is that at home it applies to many different activities -getting dressed can literally take an hour, brushing teeth 20 minutes, 30 mins to get shoes on. Mornings are a nightmare but it's school work that really matters. I was exactly the same at school when I was his age but I've still no idea how to improve things. If anyone has any suggestions, we'd be eternally grateful. Thanks.

In my experience it will just click. My boy is 8 and the teacher said what he writes is good but just not enough a page would be nice !! Did not really make a big deal [he simply hates writing anyway just loves maths] just mentioned and a few months later he writing away -on a subject he likes !! Regarding getting ready my DD3 believes that time does not exist [she just 10] so we make a time limit and count down or set an alarm if she having a slow morning-seems to work .

Hi FatDan:

My DD1 was much the same, we started getting sneaky in summer between Y2 and Y3.

POSTCARDS: kids love buying them on days out/ on holiday. Get sly and say fair enough, but if I buy this you have to write something. At first it may only be a quick sentence to Grandpa or something, but the more they do it, the more they will write.

COMPETITIONS: most children's magazines have competitions. Most kids pester you to send an e-mail. Just say no! Have them write a letter with the answers, say something nice about the magazine (& tv show/ book/ videogame/ etc...) and then address the envelope. Then post the letter together on the way to the park, school, etc...

Father Christmas: Insist a letter is written. Only a letter will do & set a deadline. Those elves start packing the sleigh on December xth.

Birthday cards: have them write more than their name or even make them.

Thank you cards: insist that they acknowledge presents. Making them as well is great fun.

FAN LETTERS: If they're wild about a sports hero or if they're wild about an actor - have them send a letter asking them to come to their school or saying how awesome they are or asking any question they like.

HTH

How is his handwriting? Is it messy. Can he use a knife and fork? Is he clumsy?

My DS (nearly 8) has been struggling with handwriting too. (He is excellent with reading though - very advanced) I went to the GP in the end (because I was concerned with his clumsiness and inability to eat tidily) to request a dyspraxia assessment. He was seen by a paeditrician and referred on to OT, physio and was observed/assessed in school.

He was diagnosed as having "specific learning difficulties in fine motor-control, spelling and writing" (euphamism for dyslexia - even though it doesn't affect reading). He also has eye tracking problems.

Personally I would speak to the teacher first, then the SENCO, and finally GP if you think it is necessary. In some children it doesn't 'just click' and they need extra help to express themselves.

MY DS is getting 1-1 help now and doesn't have to 'write', but produce written work as a mind map (spider diagram) just to get him to get things down on paper quickly. He will also be starting to use an AlphaSmart sometimes in school and I am teaching him to touch type.

My son is now 10 and everything you say is everything he does...I sympathise enormously ! I have begun to win the academic battle with him but it is an ongoing struggle. Firstly I think it is a boy thing and I think it is not well catered for in our education system today. I have a very academic background my husband doesn't. I am a doctor but he is ubersuccessful in the business world. He has gone out on a limb and succeeded...when he was a kid he was exactly like my son and sadly he still is. When the time comes these chaotic little chaps are actually chaotic because nothing matters to them other than what they are interested in. They are very strong willed.This is all good stuff BUT as a Mum you need nerves of steel to deal with dopey teachers who are only interested in today and don't have the time nor inclination to seek potential in children. My son was so far behind I thought he would never be able to catch up. My recipe was this: bedtime was strict but he could read, no IT unless as a reward, sat with him and explained clearly that we knew he was v clever and that we expected hom to try at school explaining what that actually involved ie sitting still etc, we got the teachers to make him do catch up work in playtime (thet sped him up though the teachers didn't like it), then we absolutely encouraged a love f literature by getting him reading good stuff, ie the king of the copper mountains,cs lewis,greek myths,etc .we talked about writing stories when we went to bed and we wrote them in our heads etc. Actually it was fun. He started to love English and read beastquest ,skullduggery etc enid blyton and whilst his spelling is rather orful and sumtims shokin we are getting there ! I agree with the comments about writing letters etc, emails to cousins etc We wrote secret messages to him and he loved that writing a message for the day and sticking it on my pillow. Getting him to school is an act of war..we now have a school bus and I put all his gear ain the hall..the bus is a miracle he hears it coming down the drive and he starts running gets his pants off his head and stumbles out half dressed ...makes me laugh ! I think gotcha...we often have to follow the bus with his sports kit but now I just try to laugh and focus on his wonderfully funny little ways and hope that when he leaves home and continues to be this hopeless he will like his father find a nice lady
Ike me to fetch and carry for him and a career he loves and is as autistic about as his dad ! Have faith dont make him feel bad his time will come ! Other writing ideas are the diary of a wimpy kid fill in book, get him to find recipes and write instructions and get him cooking...really gets him focused...oh we have a computer programme called comic life and we make comics and put pictures in them from our photo album. Make all the birthday cards and get him to copy jokes into them from a joke book. He emails his daddy a joke each day...it all really helps
I have done everything and being a doctor you can go down the whole dyslexic ,eye coordination route but actually the truth of the matter is probably your son is immature and normal. They showed me mines IQ profile ..it was hilarious from genius to moron depending on the day, test etc. My father was very senior in education and years ago boys were allowed to be boys and they used sport and fresh air to develop them.Do you have adaughter? Mine is 3 years younger thAn her brother she helps him get dressed and organised it is hilarious.
Good luck and don't expect too much from the teachers in my experience only 10% today are any good compared to my junior school in wales many moons ago! My son goes to a very expensive school his second...it doesnt matter where they go these boys are tricky...We got lucky last year and had a relentless tough inspired old fashioned teacher and he blossomed...now we are back to the same old modern nonsense...and he is back to slacking! Remember that being first out of the starting blocks doesnt mean you will be successful in life ...getting there in the end does ! I also recommend coaching But it has to be for fun with someone that he is inspired by...it just stops him being bottom and keeps him in set 1 or the top of set 2 ...he was bottom of the bottom before. Ask the teachers at the meeting what thye find inspires him...and what they do about that and what do they do if he is lazy or chaotic ...ie is ther any downside to not finishing his work...a good teacher has answers a bad teacher doesnt ...you might ask them to watch him and meet with them and have a chat ...sometimes it helps them focus a bit more on the solution rather thN just dumping you with a problem !

It is a valid point that these boys slow writing will be a thing of the past as they will all be typing anyway ! In the top prep schools in London the uber competitive parens often get their sons dx with dyslexia sothey can use IT and get xtra time in exams. some kids obviously do have some dire problems but a lot are just immature and sadly badly taught.

You won't get a dx if there isn't really a problem. My DS (7) has a huge 7 year discrepancy between reading age and writing age. That is a problem.... We WILL overcome it (I am determined), but it has to be recognised as a problem to be granted the help you need.

My DD always hated writing. Her fine muscle control took ages to develop and this was part of the problem initially. She was home educated for the final part of year 6 (long story but she had been bored for some time but stayed in because she wanted to represent the school at a country dancing festival). During home education I developed a series of fun things to improve her writing/speed.

I would time her for one minute and see how many times she could write a single word - we started with "the". Once speed wasn't increasing much we would move on to another word.

She would copy out a poem or passage from a book she really loved each day - allowed her to concentrate on the writing rather than having to think of something to write.

I would dictate a passage of her favourite book and she would write it down as fast as she could.

I would pick a topic she was interested in and ask her to write one paragraph on it. As the weeks went by I added more paragraphs.

By the time she went into secondary school her handwriting and speed of writing was as it needed to be.

We had also got her to learn to touch type when she was younger. This greatly increased her output and showed she did have the creativity, etc. - just couldn't be bothered to write it down!

I am wondering about attention deficit; is he merely slow to get things done, or does he get completely distracted?

DD is exactly the same - both writing and at home, you could be describing her down to a tee. (She's also very slow at sports - always trails in ages after the last one in any race etc. despite being keen and really quite fit)

She's 10 this month, and in yr 5. We've plugged away over the years with school - partly because looking a few years a head the slow writing is obviously a problem for the future in terms of exams, coursework etc. But also its an immediate problem in that she is always being kept in at playtimes to finish work, in trouble for not getting things done etc etc, and this had reached a point where she was becoming very unwilling to go to school.

She's finally been referred to the Educational Psychologist, and (after a false start as the normal Ed Psych became long term sick) has just had her first assessment.

We weren't wildly optimistic beforehand, but we were really impressed - the EP asked to see us as well as dd, has given lots of helpful suggestions already (including working on keyboard skills as a fallback position), and is going to see dd further at the end of term for further assessment.

If nothing else she has I think made the point to school (fairly forcibly, seeing the letters that she's copied to us) that (a) it isn't simply dd being stubborn and refusing to write - which basically every teacher thinks is the case for at least the first term of having her in their class and that (b) if you put dd under time pressure she panics and gets even less able to put anything on paper.

I guess my main thought at your point (in yr 3) would be to keep in touch with school, ask what they're doing to address the problem, and really be aware of what is going on. Does his teacher think that it is a bad enough issue to involve the SENCO?

TBH that wasn't massively helpful for dd - its a very small school and the SENCO is the headteacher, who is also head of another school as well. But I guess the thing is that if your ds does have a longstanding problem you want to be moving down the road to getting some kind of intervention.

Oh, and one final thought - dd eternally had the same target set for her 'finish work in the time set' - date eg "by end Jan 2012" and we made a point of speaking to the teacher each time she had reached the target date "I just wanted to check in, dd has this target set, we're now at the end of January, it doesn't appear that she is making any progress towards it, what happens next?"

Really good post Buzi and I can see our family through your posting. It always amazes me when teachers [I am in education so not teacher bashing] focus on what they deem as a problem and forget to celebrate the things they do. My boy wanders off at a whim[mentally] during rugby, football whatever he doing then switches on when needed, that just him...thinks of me who keeps checking mumsnet and not writing paper ...

ADD OR ADH is a different ball game...being a dreamer or developmentally disorganised is just immaturity ...most adults get dressed in the morning all be it some with a little more veuve than others ! I have a mixed experience of ed psychs having worked with many...a good one is really good and many of the rest can be awful, expensive and generally unhelpful. An interesting fact is that a child should be able to wake easily in the morning and the bed time should be ditated by the wake time not the other way around. Sleep deprived children can have an IQ deficit of upnto 15 points corrected by 6 weeks of good sleep...my little chap will burn the midnight oil if he can then he is horrendously disorganised and very erratic..hismfriends go to bed at ten he has to go at eight on the dot !

My ds is 9 and struggles with handwriting. It's slowly improving now the school are supporting me in making a big effort.

We have been doing touch typing programmes at home, the BBC have some good ones, because not only will this help his typing, it's good for fine motor skills and strengthening his hands.

I scribe stuff for him when he does his homework, so he can concentrate on what he wants to say, then handwriting separately.

I get him to write shopping lists for me, which he especially likes when he is writing down what we need to bake his choice of things.

He is also in a small group of boys at his school who struggle too, and they do weekly extra handwriting practice.

Does he experience pain when writing? Some children do, but don't mention it as they think it is "normal".

If he has pain and/or find writing hard, tends to be very messy with handwriting, I would recommend and assessment by a paediatric OT. They can help with may areas from exercises to help posture, muscle development and control to things that will help spatial awareness in forming letters.

PS. Your GP should be able to refer you.