NC levels question - year 2

[todaysnameis]

I came away from parents evening confused. DC is a free reader (in our school the scheme goes up to diamond so this means they can choose any books to that level) and in year 2. They have also said dc will be on G&T for reading whatever that means.

Yet I was told he is a 2a and 'might be more' but they haven't assessed beyond that yet. I think that's what the teacher said anyway.

There was no indication that this was the accurate level and if it was, then surely a child shouldn't be a free reader. There was no mention on needing to work on comprehension more than anything else/ a mismatch between comprehension and decoding.

Am I right to wonder what's going on? 2a is above average but being a free reader in our school in year 2 doesn't seem just a bit above average so it doesn't make sense. If the teacher hasn't assessed above 2a is that normal or should she have done?

Some schools have "free readers" in reception before the child is even in NC levels ... mad isn't it!

That would indeed be mad. That isn't the case at our school though - the majority of children continue on the scheme well into year 4,5 and 6 as it has lots of levels.

We have free readers from 3c onwards. I inherited a class where half were insistent they were free readers.

What they haven't been told is that the free reading is still part of the book scheme, and there are 4 more bands to go.

They get quite indignant if I tell them to read a certain book colour to me.

So, do you think if the teacher hasn't assessed him yet beyond 2a (this is what she said unless I got the wrong end of the stick) she should she have done so?

I can't see the point of giving levels if they are capped and therefore not a real reflection.

In our school, ks1 children may get level 3,4,etc, or even level 6,7, as long as you are up there.

Freereader in reception is mad, even y1.I don't mean those kids can't read, but you DON'T want them read everything at that age.I had experience my little boy chose a not age suitable book(freereader, free to choose ),teacher appoogized ,promised to check since .

In year 2 SATS, children are assessed up to level 3. If they achieve higher than 2a, then they are a '3'. No sub-levels given.

Depending on the school's assessment method, the teacher will be assessing beyond the level 3 mark, although they are not legally obliged to publish the sublevel past 3.

Mark schemes have a cap. It doesn't mean her teacher assessments are capped, just the 'official' test she's using to give a level.

Hi Todaysnameis

Agree with juniper904 - this is more or less the experience at our school.

KS1 teachers do not tend to give levels above 3.

1. curtails boasting Mum problems
2. helps children all feel they're roughly around the same level
3. not really necessary to do the work (easier to just see they're securely performing 3c or better and get on with helping those that are struggling perhaps?)
4. This is possibly terribly unfair, but it does occur to me that it is in the school's interest not to score above NC Level 2 at KS1 - as NC Level 3 on KS1 SATs means the school is obliged to help the child achieve NC Level 5 at KS2 Y6 SATs. An NC Level 2 at KS1 SATs would only require the school to have that pupil attain NC Level 4 at KS2 Y6 SATs. That's a much more achieved target for a school.

What you're basically being told is that a NC Level 2a means your DC is performing slightly above expected levels (2b) for end Year 2. (see MN Learning pages on NC Levels here: www.mumsnet.com/learning/assessment/national-curriculum-levels. Also bear in mind that it isn't just about reading the words on the page, there are other things assessed (prediction, comprehension, understanding of structure of the book, understanding of things like author and illustrator, etc...)

Whatever else, what you should take away from this is that your DS is off to a good start.

One to one reading time is required to really assess a child's performance and, although I'm sure this isn't every school, what I find is that post Christmas Y2 (for both my DDs at our school) the top group children did more and more independent reading or work with TA (e.g. comprehension worksheets/ writing alternative endings/ etc...), rather than work with Teacher which freed the teacher to focus on those groups that weren't achieving ~NC Level 2b, to help bring up their attainment.

It can be very annoying as a parent to learn your child isn't doing a lot of work with their teacher, but there is real pressure to get as many children as possible to the NC Level 2b benchmark for the KS1 SATs, so it is perhaps no surprise that this becomes the school's focus at some point in Y2. One advantage of a teacher working to ensure that everybody achieves 2b or better is that this means most of the class is reading at about the same level, which means whole class teaching is more effective for all (which is an advantage for your child long term - if the lessons have to be geared to too low a level, your DC might get bored and if there is a huge range of ability, it becomes very difficult to design lessons that benefit everybody).

This wasn't so much an issue with DD1 (now Y4) who was seriously struggling when in Y2. But currently DD2 also Y2 is doing well (suspect this is the benefit of having a guinea pig of an older sister, a much more clued up Mum and being around when I've been working with DD1). So we just try to keep things going at home. You don't just have to read the school books, you can incorporate your own book selections (library books, gift books or purchases) as well. Most schools don't mind what the child reads, just as long as they're reading.

I found out about this free reading website via Mumsnet - there are all sorts of great things to find here to support reading at home: www.oxfordowl.co.uk

HTH

Sorry but KS1 teachers don't tend to give levels above a 3 because level 4 is very difficult for the vast majority of 7 year old children! It is not fear of boasting mums or a desire for all children to feel equal it is simply the fact that very few children in KS1 are capable of fulfilling the criteria for higher levels. In recent years we had 1 child who was working at level 4 in some aspects ... out of hundreds of pupils who weren't!

Exactly schools are doing assessment in different way.
In our previous school,Ks1 children can get 3 only ,no sublevel indicated.Our current school could give very advanced children y3, y4 paper, or even higher.
They are certainly legally not qualified to assess ks3 or above, but at least give it a go to meet individual need.I am sure this is not usual, but could happen.

I think maybe I wasn't clear about my questions. I am asking if a. It's possible a child who is reading diamond level (yr5 on average but I know that's just an indication) books can possibly be a 2 a. I am aware it's about more than decoding but as far as I know his comprehension is good as there was no mention of any issue with it and also the teacher made a positive comment about asking more challenging comprehension questions for him than the rest of the group when they do guided reading (with lime books which she admits isn't great for him but that's the level she has to do with that group as not all of them are at ds level and she can't do a separate group for one kid or two others or it won't be guided reading.) This is the level of book he is sent home with from school.

Or b. if the teacher hasn't assessed him above level 2 sats papers and criteria ( which I think was what she was saying) should she have done. I'm not asking whether he should go above level 3 or be given a sub level just should he be assessed against level 3 given the books he is reading?

We assess reading in two different ways, which is confusing.

The reading scheme is based mainly on decoding skills.

The reading assessments is based on inference, character motivations and identifying where the story is set, for example.

Consequently, I have ended up with children who are high on the reading scheme but lower on the teacher assessment of reading skills.

I was poking looking through our data last week, and the current year 2 teachers are assessing some children as being 3b and 3a . I very much doubt they are (as they seem to have moved about 4 sub-levels since September) and it's also going to make my life a nightmare when they come to me in September. If the results are accurate then so be it, but I have a very strong feeling they're not.

mrz

not sure if you were addressing my post - but I was quite clearly saying in Y2 teachers appear to be loath to give NC Level 3 - because of implications for performance in Y6 KS2 SATs.

Whether this is real, perception or just me being an old cynic remains an open question. But I can see it is in the interest of the school to keep all pupils in Y2 at NC Level 2.

juniper904 - yes agree that SATs reading NC Level is based on other issues than physical reading. It is quite a shame that that information is not communicated to parents at home (at least not at our school, and from talking to friends I can add most schools in this LEA). The occasional worksheet sent home (never to have happened for either DD1 Y4/ DD2 Y2 so far) to work on these issues might also help parents to see that there is more being taught here than just the mechanics of reading.

OP sounds a bit odd to me.

What are his scores for comprehension papers? I think this would give you a clearer picture. But I'll say again, if the diamond (?) level that you say he is on is normally read by upper juniors then they can't all be assessed as 2A's, surely??

I suppose that the upper juniors will have a broader life experience and are therefore likely to have a different level of comprehension, so I wouldn't expect ds to have quite the same NC level as much older dc on the same book band.

There is talk of levels being kept low in our school so as to add value by year 6 so there could be an element of that.

I don't know his scores on comprehension papers as I don't think they've done any level 3 ones yet in any subject. The teacher is very nice but seems over-stretched with lots of courses and other out of the classroom stuff (not her fault) plus a very disruptive child in the class etc. They miss their guided reading about every other week it seems because she's out or they have another activity on e.g. going to church anyway. I think she probably has simply not had time to do any level 3 papers.

What jumpier said:'The reading scheme is based mainly on decoding skills.
The reading assessments is based on inference, character motivations and identifying where the story is set, for example.'is very much the case.

Especially for very young children, although they can read, can 'understand', but might not be that able to do well at the paper assessment,hence 'ended up with children who are high on the reading scheme but lower on the teacher assessment of reading skills.'

Children may still be given high level books(check the contents)to read, but the reading level mark may not reflect this reading book level.

But, don't worry, it will come soon.

I see what you are saying but the teacher no indication of any issue at all with comprehension. And if it were then surely a child shouldn't be on that level of book?

I can understand some difference and hear what you are saying but not this much difference for such a capable reader.