A question about ks1 sats, any teachers able to help

[mynicknameis]

Two questions here.

Can I ask how much a child's age affects their ks1 sats' level. I had dd2's consultation last night and was told that they are expecting her to get a 2a for maths this year. I was surprised as I'd been hoping she'd get a 3. She seems really bright to me, loves doing maths to the point of requesting to do extra at home every night and is doing year 4 books at home. She's an early July birth. This is not a pfb child btw. DD1 only got a 2b in ks1 a couple of years ago and I'd say this was about right for her. DD2 is quite different which is why Im asking. Are the children getting the 3s tending to be older in the school year and is she only getting a 2a because she's young?

Also, how important are these sats results. Do they shape their teachers' expectations for the rest of primary so that a 2a in ks1 means that the teachers will only be interested in dd2 getting up to a 4a in year 6.

I know that a 2a is a good result but we live in a grammar school area and so this is all quite important for us as we can't afford private education and the comprehensive alternative isn't very good.

I am not a teacher. However age does make a difference, however IME the effect was levelling off by the end of Y2. It is possible that your child may be a slower starter - would you say she's made more progress this year, than say Y1?

In maths you do need to be covering more material confidently to be getting a Level 3 - so it's possible that the school are not exposing her to this material because they don't think she is ready for it, while she is doing very well at what she is doing iyswim.

Her KS1 level should in no way limit what she is expected to get at the end of KS2.

Age apparently makes no difference as an August born DC can get a level 3 just as easily as an October DC can get a 2c. 2a is a great result, be very proud of that and as red says it won't limit her getting a higher placement in KS2 if she progresses well over the next few years.

Thank your for that. Can I ask what you mean by covering more material confidently. She always find sher homework very easy.

I think age can still make a difference in year 2. I am aware that the 'more able' tables in my ds year 2 are heavily weighted with Autumn/ winter born children. There is a scattering of Spring born but very few summer born.

I am a summer born who did catch up eventually but Maths particularly a slow burner for me.
Your daughter sounds like she is doing very well and I would like to think has every chance of achieving well in KS2.

I know that the 11+ is standardised in our area and the sats are not which is making me think that dd2 might well have been targetted at a 3 if she was a bit older and is why I've asked the question.

I think I'm, a bit worried that the younger children in the class start out on the lower tables and then stay there because the teachers teach them to that level and don't do anything to stretch them. They can't be moved up a table because they haven't done the necessary material and then they stay at that level for the rest of primary school.

At DD school they did seem to put the younger ones on the lower tables in Year1 but in year2 and now Year3 they are put on ability tables regardless of age so don't worry unduly.

I remember when we got the SATs results last year they also gave each child a number mark (could just be our school though) and if you got 100 or more you were doing well. They calculated the childs age into this mark though so Summer born children got bumped up a bit as they took their age into consideration. I have only our school to go on so have no idea on other schools or County areas.

If you are at all concerned voice your worries to the teacher so you know your DC is getting stretched.

In our year 2 age/ differentiation in achievement still linked a bit I think. However teachers are aware and will be conscious of age differences I am sure when looking at achievement. My ds Spring born and will be probably be 2a in maths and writing with maybe a 3 in reading. He is considered a bright boy but also an easily distracted bouncy boy. As he matures I hope he will grow out of some of his puppy dog qualities!

If she is doing Y4 books independantly with no problems at home, I'd have thought she is capable of working at level 3 at school.
Maybe the teachers have never given her work at the higher level so they can't actually mark her at level 3.

You could ask, "what does she need to do to get a level 3?" and you'll either find that there is some area where she is not yet confident, or (more likely) you'll say, "But she CAN do that"

I think it does make a difference later on, at DS junior school, (where I am a governor) they look very closely at what level they came in at Y3, and where they should be as they work through the school.

OP A number of things struck me as I read yours and subsequent posts. Firstly, as others have said 2A is a very good mark, you should be pleased with her for that. Secondly, despite the fact that she does more advanced stuff at home, a teacher needs to see her INDEPENDENTLY doing these tasks at school to be able to tick them off - frustrating I know but that's just how it is. Also I would be very at a school that lumped the younger kids together on the lower ability tables, I would be in there like a shot if I had a young child who was bright. Lastly, don't fret too much about her future predicted KS2/ KS3/ A-level grades yet! kids can buck the trend and often do IME - I have a DC who was a 2A for reading and writing in year 2 who should theoretically then get 4A's in KS2 but who is on for 5B's in both, and a younger DC who was also a 2A for maths in year 2 but is a 3B already.

The fact that your daughter wants to do more at home and above all enjoys it will stand her in very good stead in the future.

Op your DD sounds very like my DS.

He is the youngest in the yr (31st Aug) and is the only child on the top tables to not have a sept/oct birthday.

He is teaching himself some KS2 stuff (numerracy) from a book I bought ages ago and then forgot about and DS has recently discovered it.

I had parents eve last night and was told he is a 2A and should get a 3C in numeracy in SATS.

However he is struggling with division (despite flying in multiplication) and this IMO is holding him back.

Sometimes they grasp the harder stuff and forget the basics if that makes sense.

Also the teacher will not know what else they can do as it has not been covered in the class yet iyswim.

Such low opinions of teachers in this thread. I hope the parent's of my pupils don't think of me as this incompetent.

Sunscorch, not a low opinion from me, I'm a bit disappointed and worried about my dd that's all. I'm not a teacher and the systems now vastly different from when I went to school and I don't know whether I should be worrying or intervening or not. I'd be grateful for any advice from you, if you'd care to give it.

While the levels from the previous teacher are likely to affect ability grouping at the start of the year, any "errors" should become apparent relatively quickly.

It shouldn't be the case that "low ability" groups aren't being stretched; even though the work is differentiated for them, it should be targeted to challenge them. Thus, if a child is finding this work too easy, the teacher should notice, and bump up the level of the work accordingly.

I say "should", because as much as it pains me to admit it, not all teachers are good at what they do, and even the best ones make mistakes. Certainly I'm no paragon of education, but I do my best to progress each and every child under my care.

Age is certainly a factor that contributes to attainment, but it's considered under the umbrella of all factors, and is worked around accordingly. There is, after all, nothing that can be done about being a summer baby! So long as the learning is targeted appropriately, there shouldn't be any age-related issues.

Thank you. So do teachers move children from 1 ability group to another during a single academic year or do they tend to stay with the same group for that year before being reassigned the following autumn.

Heavens, mynicknameis, children should be moved up or down if appropriate. I wouldn't like to think that a child would stay in the same group ALL YEAR regardless of progress.

I don't have set groups from one lesson to the next never mind all year

I would be shuffling children around from lesson to lesson depending on the subject, topic, or if we're even working in ability groups for that session.

In DS's class they are moved about when ever it is apparent that they are in the wrong group.

If they are in the top group for numeracy it does not mean they will be in the top table for hand writing or literacy.