Would you move to a house next to a school that's just been put in special measures?

[dinster]

We've just moved out of London ? currently staying with in-laws and keen to find a place, as have been looking for months. Finally found somewhere we love and were happy that it seemed to be round the corner from a 'good' school for DD, who will start in 2013. We were about to offer on Saturday and then by chance saw the front page story of the local paper about how this school has suddenly been put in special measures. It seems to be about inadequate leadership and teaching. All the other local primaries are church schools that we wouldn't qualify for and this one is much the closest.

I know that schools in special measures can turn around quickly and that there are lots of reasons why these things can happen - and another year and half before DD would start. It may well be fine and we're hoping to go and look round and talk to people. But on the other hand, one of our main reasons for moving was because of schools and it would feel like a risk - putting the house ahead of her... I was just wondering if anyone had any experience of this and WWYD?

We have a school near us which went into special measures recently and has been turned about by the head and is now doing well. Expected to be good by time Ofsted inspect and thought likely to be oversubscribed this year. I would go to the school to look round and talk to the new head about their plans before you make a decision either way.

Thank you, ghoul, yes we'll do that. Everyone I speak to seems to be very positive about it and thinks we shouldn't be put off...

Find out more details if possible. Was there a new head? Is there now a new head? What exactly were Ofsted concerned about?

I know several schools which have been in special measures and within a few years have people desperate to send their kids there (one actually was on a safeguarding issue, which when you look at it endangered no child and was due to an administrative mix up, solved within 24 hours I think).

Yes, we'll try to find out more. Think it's about teaching and leadership - children not making the progress that would be expected. But I've heard lots of positive stories about things improving quickly in other schools, so am keeping an open mind.

if you want the honest answer NO! we have a school which has just got rid of the governers for the second time in a matter of a few years... it just about got out of special measures and now a couple years later its lookin to go back in... not all schools experience a great turn around when new heads etc are brought in....

Thanks, Loosinas, yes, that's what I'm worried about. Useful to hear different experiences - we'll investigate more, it's just hard to know what to look for and how to get a clear view of the likelihood of improvement.

This happened to us except we had already exchanged. I am still disappointed but actually the parents think highly of the school and the reasons given by Ofsted are the same as yours.

My plan is to look around it myself and make up my own mind and keep an eye on Dds development myself if she does go there.

We live between two outstanding primaries at the moment so it was such a disappointment but it is our only chance to get on the property ladder as it is shared equity so we would make the same decision to buy.

It sounds bad but everyone is hoping there will be a change of head and she went off sick the day the report came out so who knows what will happen.

And Dp says if I care that much then I should become a governor to help improve things! I might as well!

Sounds hopeful if the parents think highly of the school, reddaisy. Hope things work out well with it and for you and your dd.

Ditto Dinster. There is a very good school on my route to work that I could probably get her into if we dont rate our local one.

But I am loathe to do that as one of the reasons we are moving is so she can grow up as part of the village community like I did and part of that is going to the village school so I am trying to keep an open mind.

Make sure if you do go for it that you dont pay over the odds for the house.

My DDs school was put in Special Measures last year.

They love it, and I'm pretty happy with it.

Daughters above national average - so they mustbe doing someting right.

I don't think I'd let it put me off but I would be looking at the other local schools too. Don't discount the church schools; have you checked their admissions crieria?

In some areas there's a lot of tosh talked about having to attend church and so on - this is the case with some schools, but by no means all. Church attendence confers no advantage at all at our local CofE primary.

Thanks for all responses - the other schools are all quite a bit further away and I think oversubscribed, but I'll check out their admissions criteria.

If this is a move that is expected to last for say more then five years then I think you need to think in terms of the house and the area being right as much as what a school might be like in 18 months.
You say that there are two faith schools, which you might be able to get a place at and another school on the way to work, so it is not as though you are totally devoid of alternatives. The situation may well be very different in 9 months time when the crunch time comes when you do need to make decisions. The school in special measures will have had at least one HMI visit and possibly two and you will have a pretty good idea from the reports what the situation is.

When was it inspected? The (new) Ofsted framework is tough, apparently much tougher than the previous one. It came in in January this year and from what I can see many schools are falling down on it. A 'satisfactory' gained in an Ofsted inspection after January this year is not the same as a 'satisfactory' gained before.

A mum from our Year 6 chose school x which had just come out of Special Measures. Why? Because the mum's BF's DD goes there.

According to the mum at the time, DD wasn't particularly academic so the school's poor academic record didn't bother her. Plus the school must have bottomed out and with the injection of more funds the school can only go up, right? Wrong.

We bumped into the mum the other day for the first time since the summer and she is desparate to get her DD out. There is no discipline in the classroom and vandalism is rife. Unfortunately the council isn't interested. The council allocated her their first choice and just because she has changed her mind doesn't mean she gets to jump the queue of those on the continued interest list at other schools.

It is going to be years before the school is turned around if at all.

a) Do you want to take the risk?
b) Can you wait for that to happen?

I think you need to look at the context. 2 schools near us went from SM to good in a matter of months (under the old system). 1 school went from good to SM recently (under new system) but reading between the lines it seemed to be because of not acting on one particular area of the previous inspection rather than it being a poor school on a number of levels. A primary can turn round very quickly if there is one particular area that has lt it down. If there are lots of issues, the right head needs to be in place and that can take some time sadly.

I would look around the school together, plus a few more in the area for good measure, you need to be applying next autumn anyway, and you need to see a school to appreciate it. Also you need to think about your priorities in education. Do you want academic progress over inclusive education with children with a range of needs, etc. Have a look at the other posts on here about problems people have with the school, and think which of these you can live with and which you can't. There isn't a perfect school to suit every child/family, otherwise it would be outed on mumsnet!

In our last ofsted (before girls started) the school was given a good. They were told they didn't stretch the higher achievers enough. Despite this it is a lovely school, which actively 'recruits' children with SN, and has a diverse catchment, with children from some of the most and least well off parts of town. It blends them all together and engenders a real feeling of support for eachother and is in a lovely setting. So I might have had to spend a bit more time supporting dd in her maths and reading for the previous teacher school to see her potential, but to me it is still a great school, even if the new ofsted put it in special measures it would have these qualities (plus loads of stress).

Look at a few schools, if you are still happy with the school then make the offer, the sellers are probably hating that newspaper article even more than you.

Most schools that enter special measures are out within 18mths (we were out within 16). Money doesn't get thrown at the school, people do. Super heads, leading teachers and la staff. The school will have a visit a term from the hmi (not including the first term). They are under a microscope they will have to improve rapidly. Yes some occasionally slip back, but that's usually due to sitting back on their laurels. There is going to be a lot more schools entering special measures now due to the new framework so people are going to have to realise that it's support that the school needs. As pp have said, you need to go and look around the school and get a feel. Ask questions to see if your fears are founded.

Our local primary went into Special Measures three years ago. It got a new head, unfortunately he is not a 'strong' leader and a lot of the dead wood teachers remained in place.

The contrast between the Special Measures and the other local Outstanding school is amazing.

Art work, discipline, school dinners, reward systems, library books, assemblies, etc. I can see the difference between the schools. In the 'Outstanding' school ii all seems so obvious, the routines are polished and of obvious benefit.
The special Measures school is still flaying around with consultations, trialing this and that. The head spends most of his time directing traffic in the cap park or hanging around the corridors rather then meeting with staff members on a weekly basis to review and push forward new strategies.

Its down to the head really. Do you think he/she has the balls to push through change?

There is a limit to what a head can do.

My neighbour is a teacher and he was saying that in situations like this getting rid of crap teachers is only Stage 1. The school needs the existing classes to graduate before things can improve.

A friend from Primary school sent her DD to a school that had just come out of SM and she was saying that some of the kids were uncontrollable. The school has limited powers to discipline these kids so unless the school is prepared to expell 30% of its kids then things aren't going to improve much in the short term.

@pusheed

I cant agree with this comment because:-

1. As a matter of fact schools get out of special measures much faster in general than that would suggest, in any case where have these unmangeable kids come from and how are they to be replaced with manageable ones? Unless you are a school that manages its own admissions AND breaks the law!

and

1. What any school needs is an effective behaviour policy.

In most schools in special measures there are three priorities

1. Introducing an effective behaviour policy

1. Identifying the good and the OK teachers and supporting and motivating them -many will go from good to ok.

1. process two identifies the poor, and unimprovable teachers who need to be managed out.

I think you might get more useful advice if you mention where you are thinking of moving to. I know of a school which fits this description and I think will get quickly turned around. It is also in a very good area with good secondaries.

nlondondad - unmanagable kids don't become managable because a behaviour policy gets put in place.

Its not like in the movies where a tough but fair HM comes in, cleans up and the under achieving students suddenly have a father figure/role model.