Very Little Non Verbal Reasoning in 9 yr old boy

[glasshouse]

Posted this in Education but thought I'd try here as well. I'm wondering if anyone can give me some pointers on how to help. I was at my sons parents evening and was told that although his verbal reasoning was excellent, he had very little non verbal reasoning. This explains why he is having so much trouble with his handwriting which is very poor and he is also having great trouble with his maths. His other scores were good so his overall score for dyslexia is low.I'm just wondering where we go from here. Whether there is anything I can do to help him or what sort of problems will arise at secondary school. Would love to hear back with some ideas. Many thanks for your help.

sorry, but don't really understand the difference between verbal and non verbal reasoning - can you clarify?

I thought bad handwriting was just down to poor hand co-ordination. Is it possible the school has over analysed the situation?

Has he been seen by en Ed Psych or a specialist teacher? They would give recommendations for help based on the test scores. I take it was school who assessed him internally? What has SENCO said?

By the way, have you checked his vision? My son has poor handwriting and it's caused by a combination of fine motor issues and eye-tracking problems. You need to go to a proper behaviour optometrist (see BABO website), rather than a high street optician (who missed my son's significant problem 4 times!)

Senco said he was an 'anomaly'! They said that the tests would go with him to his secondary school. I'm just wondering what I can do to help him not only in this school but the implications for his secondary school. He has had his eyesight checked - but only at a High Street optician. Will see if I can get it checked out with a behaviour optometrist. He hasn't been seen by an Ed Psych and I'm not sure how, or whether, to get one involved. His verbal reasoning was two years above his age and his retained memory was very slightly above his age, so it's just the non-verbal reasoning that is causing the problem (it was virtually non existant).

I don't see the harm in asking for a referral. If school don't do it, then the GP might....unless you want to go private.

Is your son going to take the 11+ - because if so, in most areas he'll need to do a NVR test. If he's not as far as I can tell the only time he'll need NVR skills is when he sits CAT tests.

Why has dyslexia been ruled out? It is a common symptom that someone will significantly under perform in non-verbal reasoning where their verbal reasoning would predict a higher score.

What is the link between NVR and handwriting??

I presume the connection with handwriting is that if you have poor visual spatial skills, you'll have more difficulty writing neatly, keeping to the lines, keeping numbers in columns, etc. He probably has difficulty getting a mental image of how objects move in space. Does he dislike or have difficulty with jigsaw puzzles, following lego plans accurately, reading maps, understanding symmetry and reflection????? Was he slow to learn to dress himself? Or working out how to get a hat on his head, when he couldn't see the hat any more? (ie could he retain a mental image of it, what way round it was and what it was doing when he was putting it on his head?). If not, then I would question the assertion he has trouble with non-verbal reasoning and would want to know what the school really means by "non-verbal reasoning." If yes, then could he have mild dyspraxia rather than dyslexia? And if yes, then it is possible a behavioural optometrist would have some suggestions. Practising things like map reading or doing tangrams can help.

If I didn't know where my child was failing with solving physical puzzles then I'd make a few and see how the child got on. I'd literally build cardboard puzzles with differences in them, hide a surprise in one of them, like a toy or a piece of chocolate and then I'd give the child a clue about how to solve it. I'd say what the prize was, and watch how the child went about trying to get the gift.

Some people do have a massive discrepancy between their skills in verbal reasoning and non-verbal reasoning. It can happen sometimes in people who have very specific brain injuries / abnormalities but can also happen naturally. It can cause genuine problems. Try googling "non-verbal learning difficulties" and see if anything resonates with your son. However, don't panic yet. The discrepancy might just be a result of the tests used or the way your ds was assessed.

Thanks for all your answers. He's never shown any interst, or been any good at jigsaws or those puzzles where you put the right shape in the right hole. He plays with lego, but only making his own models - not following the instructions. Think I'll investigate the behavioural optomerist or ed psych and see how we get on.

Good luck x Let us know how you get on...