In year Primary admission appeals

[paddymayday]

Hi all,

I am new to mumsnet (blush). I am hoping you can give me some help with a primary school in year appeal that I am in no doubt I will have to make.

We are moving counties very shortly (for a better lifestyle for the whole family) and I fear my DS, currently in reception year, will not be given a place in the school which is literally 3 doors from the house we are buying. We are moving to a small village which has an infant school however they are saying it's full (17 per class). The difference here is that this school is one of three that joined to form 'one' school. So the PAN number (64) covers the 3 schools and they split it as 17 in 2 of the schools and 30 in the other.

Upon speaking to the admission dept, I have been told that there isn't a space in my preferred school but there are 3 spaces in one of the others. Therefore meaning they are under their total PAN number. The problem with the school I believe I will be offered, is it is over 2 miles away from home and I have no childcare in that village (I work 4 days a week)! I have a DD who is pre-school age and will be under the childcare in the village we are moving to so I really do not want to separate them. An interesting point I have found out, is that at the beginning of the year the school actually had 18 pupils but one pupil has left the school (which them makes me wonder how strict this split of PAN number is between the 3 schools!)

Cutting to the point, I believe I will need to appeal and am looking for any advice or help you can offer as to information gathering I can do ASAP to start formulating my appeal.

Apologies for the long post, but as you can imagine I am besides myself over this. I want to make this move as stress free as possible for my sensitive DS and will do anything I can to help him.

Thanks

Given the numbers you have quoted this will not be an infant class size appeal. That is good as it means you have a better chance of winning. Basically you have to prove that the prejudice to your son through not being admitted outweighs the prejudice to the school from having to cope with an additional pupil. You therefore need to come up with reasons why this is the right school for your son. Things like childcare and transport difficulties won't generally help I'm afraid. You need to concentrate on things like facilities the appeal school has that would be of particular benefit to your son, after school clubs and so on. So, for example, if the preferred school has a band and you can produce evidence that your son is musically talented that would help.

The fact they had 18 at the start of the year was probably due to a successful appeal rather than them varying the split of PAN. Still worth mentioning. Also if any other years are over PAN you should bring that up in the appeal as it suggests the school can handle additional children.

Good luck.

As prh47bridge says, the fact that this is not an ICS case is a huge help to you.

When you say your son is sensitive, does he have recognised problems or additional needs? If so and you can get a professional assessment confirming that he will benefit from being at a very local school, that could be useful too, although the key here is that it should be a professional's opinion (paediatrician, psychologist etc) rather than a repetition of your views.

Also as prh47bridge says, ask the school for information about class numbers in previous years, as any evidence that they have managed with 18 in a class will support your case. Apart from that, emphasise the benefits to your child in being at the village school in helping him settle in your new area etc.

May I ask a question? Did you find MN via the link on DirectGov?

No she found it via me!!!

I think that the first thing you need to is confirm what the PAN actually is based on. Are we talking about two infant schools with a PAN of 17 and a junior school with a PAN of 30 or what? Also when it say it is one school, is three sites all called the same name or is it three different school names under one school federation.
Each school will have their own admission number, so a PAN of 17 is quite feasible but that is a really difficult number for class organisation and the infant class regulations. You need to confirm what the class organisation is because there is no way that the school can have two infant years that are up to the PAN without breaking the infant class size regs - it would be a class of 34. By the same token I find it unusual to believe that they have three classes of 17, the school could not manage them financially.

Thanks all for your quick replies.
admission - Looking at the admissions booklet it shows 3 sites under one name. PAN column shows 64 to cover all three sites, however under the address section where it lists the 3 sites it shows 1 site with 30 places and the other 2 with 17 places. I will find out how they work their classes as even if they do mixed age range I see your point re infant class numbers.

PanelMember - He doesn't have any needs etc re 'sensitivity', it's just his nature. DD is a tough cookie but DS is the break down and cry type :-)

prh47bridge - Thank you - I realise I would need to base any appeal on how it will be detrimental to my DS and not an inconvenience to me but are there any specifics/ideas you can give on how I put forward a point on friendship group etc? I am not sure the school has any specialities. Remember this is only a very small infant school.

Admissions - thinking about it, I believe they have 2 classes split by age group.

I am going to visit the school this week, both the site we would like and one of the other 2 sites. I will be meeting with the schools admissions dept, so am trying to think of as many questions to ask and information that I need to gather which could all be used if this goes to appeal.

Friendship groups are often put forward but rarely successful. Most appeal panels will take the view that friendships are pretty fluid at this age unless there is independent evidence that the child in question has a particular need.

It can be difficult to come up with things but have a good look at the school and see what you can come up with. If the case to refuse admission is weak you may not need very much.

OP,
Can I check, are we talking about a school with 17 places per year group, that is up to 119 pupils in the school or a school with 17 places in total?

Admission - we are talking about an infant only school with 17 places per year group. So I believe there are actually only 2 classes formed of three year groups.

Are you in England OP? This sounds a v confusing set up.

Yes this is in England. I agree with the confusing set up!

Well I think as this isn't an infant class sizes appeal you must have a pretty good chance of getting your son in. It would be much better for him to attend the local site of the school rather than travelling 2 miles away. It would be good for him socially to have local friends and if they have enough space to go above PAN (which seems likely given it is such a strange number and they had 18 earlier in year) I would hope you'd have a good chance. It seems very odd set up though. Is there anything like music or sport that he's interested in that the local site is better at, that would be worth including I think.

OP,
17 places per year group, gives a total of 51 pupils, which split between two classes gives a class of 25 and one of 26.
The PAN is a funny number. One reason would be that the school has two classrooms that are not really big enough for 30 pupils each. So finding out the actual classroom size would be useful for the appeal hearing. The old standard for a classroom for 30 pupils was 48 sq metres but this is now 56 sq metres for all new builds, so that will give you an idea of how many the classroom can really take. If it comes anywhere close to 30 then there is a reasonable argument that there is no reason not to admit another pupil, as there is plenty of room in the classroom and you are not any where near the infant class size limit.
The other issue is that in reception year they are in the foundation stage, which is all about play and discovery whereas in year 1 they are taught more formally, so how is this being carried out if half the year 1 are in with the reception class? I suspect that there may well be the "official " split of classes and then the actual split of classes, which happens on a day to day basis.

Admission that was really interesting information - thank you.

Today I went to visit two of the 3 sites (both of these being the infant only sites). One has positions available and the other was the site we would like. When explaining everything to the admission secretary she suggest I speak to the head and see if he will liaise with the governors to maybe make an exception. I was going to do that (even the head is leaving at Easter - does it get more complicated!?). As it turned out the Chair of Governors walked into the school soon after I left and the admissions secretary explained our situation to her. She has advised that we email her directly to see what they can do.

After seeing the school and talking to them I feel a lot more confident should it get to an appeal, although I am now hopeful that this can all be resolved without having to go down that route. The classroom size was more than adequate and if anything was bigger than my ds is currently in with 30 children.
The reception class of 17 has it's own room. As the year 1 was a very small intake year (of 9) that has joined with the year 2 class. I would say that this goes in our favour even more as there is not a push for numbers over the whole school. There are only 40 children in total at the school!! (it is very teeny though :-))
Thank for all your replies, help & guidance. I will let you know how I get on with the Governors.

Paddymayday,
It is not necessarily in your favour. Any appeal panel has to take into consideration the future situation and what could happen. So for instance if both yr 1 and yr2 were full with 17, then they could not have 1 class as they would be breaking the infant class size regs. As it is they have 23 in the class and anybody who applied for either of those year groups will have to be admitted. What the school would do if the numbers in the class get to 30 is an interesting debate. In theory they should be admitted as they have not reached PAN, but I am sure that the LA would not admit and go to appeal arguing that they cannot set up a new class for 1 pupil and that to have 31 in the class is illegal.
You have 17 in the reception class, so in the short term (till the end of the school year) it would seem that whilst they have met PAN, they have lots of room in the class and there is a good argument for saying that admitting would cause no prejudice to the school. However come september they will be in a class of 17 + 9 = 26. Again an additional one will only make 27, but if it was filled to PAN in year 2 there would be then 35 in the classroom, with 18 in year 1. It is a balancing act that the admission panel is going to have to grapple with. For what it is worth, all things being equal I would admit but I am not going to be on the panel at your appeal, assuming that the chances of getting an influx of 8 pupils to current year 1 is slim!
Whilst the CoG is being helpful, actually they should not be getting involved and neither should the headteacher. The rules are clear, when the year group is up to PAN, they cannot admit and it has to go to appeal, but hey when did schools obey all the rules!

Interesting as I didn't think of it like that. However what was made clear is the year group is definitely below PAN. (currently at 61/64). I was told that the LA assign the place to the school but governors have a lot to do with accepting a child on an individual site. Would that not be the case?