stupid school have wrongly charged me for school dinners...

[mumatron]

and apparently there is nothing I can do except pay it.

£271.

My dc changed schools a year ago, a few weeks later I had a letter from the local council addressed to 'parents of DS' with a bill for the above amount.

obviously I phoned to query it, the man from the council said he would look into it. I also called the school who apologised and said it must have been an error on their part.

My ds had been in the school for 4 years and had never had dinners, I have never qualified for the free dinners scheme.

since then I have periodically had letters threatening baliffs etc, each time I call the council I am told it is sorted.

Friday I came home from work to find a hand delivered letter from a baliff saying they will be coming on 09/03/2012 to remove goods. This is the second time this has happened. Called the council again and have just been told that after speaking to the school the debt is actually mine and as they have invoices I have no option but to pay it. I can make an appointment with the school to see the invoices they have. what good is that going to do? unless they have pictures of him eating £271 worth of dinners.

I should also add the school never once sent a letter home from school to say that there was any amount outstanding, or that they had needed to give him dinners for any reason.

Any suggestions as to where the hell I go with this?

TIA

This is crazy that the school says you owe for 169 dinners. That is effectively over three quarters of a school year of school dinners and there is no way that any school should be allowing that kind of bill to accumulate.

The idea that they have the invoices does not prove in any way that your child had the meals they say he had, so it is for them to prove that your son had the meals. I am assuming here that you have asked your son and he says that he has not had the meals.

I would go into the school at the first opportunity and ask them to show you proof of your son having school meals, they would normally be taking some kind of register for the meals, so that has got to be the first request. They need to produce a list of the dates involved and then you need to look to see whether any of those dates seem reasonable or not. For instance were they in school when these meals were taken?

The other thing that you need to do is argue with the school what they thought they were doing by allowing this supposed bill to get to £271 without them having sent you any bills or letters about the issue. It is interesting that they say there are invoices not invoice. That suggests that they have tried to collect the outstanding debt before by sending invoices but got no response. If they can produce such letters then you need to start talking to your son, if they can't then I think that you write to the headteacher and say that you do not believe that the bill is yours, that there is no proof that it is and that you want an apology in writing within 7 days and the bailiff called off. You should copy the letter to both the Chair of governors and this person you have spoken to in the LA.

As others have said I would under no circumstances pay the bailiff unless somebody can prove that the bills are yours. If you do pay I suspect you will never get the money back without an enormous fight.

How ridiculous! I second the idea that the school have the wrong child, either the same name or perhaps the child above or below your DS in the register?
Yes as someone said, the class teacher will have recorded on a daily basis whether each child in their class was packed lunch or school dinners. In our school, if dinners are not paid for after a certain length of time, then parents are written to & packed lunches have to be started. Pretty sure this wouldn't be longer than half a term. But payment is requested on a weekly/ daily basis. They cannot wait until dinner 169 & then quibble it! If they thought your DS was having them they should have informed you far far earlier.
Also, in our school, the head/deputy tick off the children (in the hall every lunchtime)who are queuing up for dinners on a daily basis (think this is more to ensure no one misses their lunch, but if this happens in your school, it may be more evidence for you). I don't know about the bailiff side of things but you need to insist on speaking to the head and the finance officer or whoever is in charge of dinner registers about this, in no uncertain terms.
If the kitchen staff / dinner ladies have worked there a while, could they vouch for your DS too?
I really hope this gets sorted out for you.

I wonder if they were recording you as a 'free' and weren't bothering to record accurately whether your ds had a dinner or not. i.e. just putting him down as a dinner. When your claim didn't materialise they were left with the bill!

I had a version of this a while back, with lots of threatening letters and nastiness, and we had to demand that the Local Authority investigate the school accounts, because we had proof of a cheque having been cashed but the headteacher at the school refused to believe our evidence (which was supplied three times!) In the event it transpired that someone had entered the wrong information in relation to our cheque, that this anomaly was clearly reported to the head teacher, with a corresponding payment listed as a unallocated surplus, but she was incapable of tracking the budget column across and putting two and two together. She was effectively financially illiterate, functionally innumerate.

In the event she refused to apologise and made a big fuss about letting us off the £100+ as a 'goodwill gesture' which was complete rubbish as she'd been sitting on the money for 9 months by then.

Anyway, in your case I would create a right stink and do the following all in one day (after making absolutely sure that my child hadn't been having sneaky extra dinners behind my back):

1. Send a Data Protection Act subject access request to the school demanding all information on your child's attendance record at the school, and any record of him having taken school meals, including all dates this is supposed to have happened.
2. Send an ancillary Freedom of Information request for copies of the school dinner financial accounts for that year.
3. Send a letter to the Chief Education Officer, by name, at the Local Authority, saying there has been an accounting error in relation to school meals, and that you are being hounded for money you don't owe, and that they should cease and desist. Make reference to the DPA and FOIA requests you have submitted,
4. Write separately to the Chief Finance Officer at the Local Authority saying exactly the same thing. Use the words cease and desist again.

Wait 48 hours/2 working days, then, if no immediate response:

1. Phone local paper. Be prepared to be photographed with your child, holding lunchbox, looking harrassed and slightly sad.
2. Start formal complaint using LA standard procedures.

If no joy:

Escalate complaint to Local Government Ombudsman.

"1. Phone local paper. Be prepared to be photographed with your child, holding lunchbox, looking harrassed and slightly sad."

So true.

The school seems to be very badly run. Why the heck would they ask everyone to apply for free school meals even if they don't qualify? So someone on 100K should apply for FSM too? What a waste of time and resources.

DS1 was photographed holding his cello looking harrassed a slightly sad when they doubled the cost of cello lessons in the county.

Thank god the readers couldn't hear him play, that's all I can say, or they might have been a lot less sympathetic.

LeeCoakley that sounds quite a likely scenario.

Is there any way you can find out from a legal person whether the debt collector/bailiff can be warned off by being told that there will be some kind of charge of breaking and entering , theft, trespass or even assault, if they come on or in your property and it transpires (as it obviously will) that they had no cause to do so?

Surely a citizen has a right to be protected against this kind of action, as mistakes like this must be made all the time and bailiffs can't go around wandering into innocent people's houses and taking their stuff, surely?

I think there's actually little you can do - a credit card company (the one that manages the Laura Ashley credit cards, if you are interested) confused me with someone else once and they hounded me and my parents for money I didn't owe (I was about 25 at the time and had been living away from home for years and years!) and it carried on until someone at their end realised the other person had a different date of birth from me. I think this is beyond what is legally permissible but they still got away with it at the time.

I think I would be tempted to see a solicitor for a free half hour consultation if it really bothered me, though, and get some advice.

If this has all come about because of them refusing to correct errors in their data, I believe you can make a complaint to the Information Commissioner's Officer (ICO) and claim distress because they are in error and they won't correct their data. You may be entitled to compensation as well, for example if you have to take time off work to deal with it, or need to see a solicitor, or bailiffs (god forbid) take your stuff. Here's the extract from the ICO website:

---

What is the Data Protection Act?
The Data Protection Act applies to personal information and ensures that it is handled properly...

Personal information is information about you. It can be your name, address or telephone number. It can be the type of job you do, the things you buy and the place you went to school.

The Act works in two ways. Firstly, it helps to protect your interests by obliging organisations to manage the information they hold in a proper way. It states that anyone who processes personal information must comply with eight principles, which make sure that it is:

fairly and lawfully processed;
processed for limited purposes;
adequate, relevant and not excessive;
accurate and up to date;
not kept for longer than is necessary;
processed in line with your rights;
secure; and
not transferred to other countries without adequate protection.
The second area covered by the Act gives you important rights, including the right to know what information is held about you and the right to correct information that is wrong. You also have the right to claim compensation through the courts if an organisation breaches the Act and this causes you damage, such as financial loss. If it has, you can also claim for distress.

---

Link here

OP go to moneysavingexpert.com to the debt free wannabee forum and ask about bailiffs, they have experts there to help you with template letters etc. they can help you check the credentials of the bailiff too, they must have the correct licence with the correct company I believe and often don't!

DO NOT LET THE BAILIFF IN OR PAY HIM!! There are hundreds of stories where they try to get in illegally or they don't have the correct licence. Even if they put a foot in the door, refuse entry and call the police. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING.

When you get your template letters, you send them first class and if they still harrass you go to your MP or the police.

Oops, send them first class recorded

This post might be useful, about what you can do to them, that is debt collectors/creditors - it does assume you owe money you can't pay back, but the advice would stand, scroll down to setting aside judgement & dealing with bailiffs.

How to complain about harrassment from debt collectors.

Good luck, hope you get it sorted soon.

Wow, what a nightmare. I had a problems with bailiffs for a previous tenant at my old flat, and we went down the route of telling the debt collectors that I was contacting the Information Commissioner and mentioning that there is something in the Data Protection Act that information held should be correct and up-to-date.

Different situation, obviously, but it might work? I agree that you should check the dinner register as this should show that you DS hasn't asked for the dinners you are being charged for. It sounds like an administrative fuck-up that they're not taking responsibility for.

I hope you are getting this sorted out OP However I wanted to comment upon the no money owed from your other child.

I have more than once had a child on lunch boxes and one on school dinners. Mine are permitted to decide what they wish my son have only one term had school dinners prefers lunch boxes my 3 dd's do a mixture.

So this in itself can not be used as " evidence" I know I am not the only parent this way.

Not much help for you now, but this happened on a minor scale with dd1. They were recording her as having lunches when she hadn't, I knew she hadn't as she and dd2 always have the same and dd2 was in credit. Apparently dd1 class had had errors before (dd1 said a few children call out when not their turn). They cleared the 3 lunches, and have a note now that if her pattern changes and I haven't told them then they will contact me that fri. The staff in her class were also spoken to. I was really cross that despite me not ordering the food, they marked her as having lunch, why do I bother telling them when I want her to eat. Hope you get it all resolved soon.

Bailiffs cannot be arrested for harassment, trespassing etc as it is not their mistake, if they have been told by the court you owe the money it's not their job to dispute it just collect the money

A non certificated bailiff will not come to your door as they need authorization from court to do anything

They will not get in through a window or unlocked door and take your stuff.

And if your case has already been on hold the court will prob tell you they have given you the time to get it sorted out and you didnt so you will need hard evidence from the school to fight this.

In my job I am responsible for collecting dinner money and maintaining records for school meals. I honestly can't get my head around how on earth this could be allowed to happen! A couple of weeks of non payment would have us contacting parents.

Also, the figures given to the kitchen staff every day for the number of dinners required would have started alarm bells ringing - if a child was bringing packed lunch every day but dinner was being ordered there would (or perhaps that's should) be an extra tray/plate whatever left over. Depends on how the staff operate but I have to reconcile amounts paid with dinners served every week. It has to balance.

This is why I am wondering if the council are saying you were registered for free meals but then discovered you were not eligible, consequently they are seeking reimbursement? I am wondering if a bit of underhand jiggery pokery has gone on with school by including your child as a 'free' without valid eveidence and this has been discovered in an audit at a later date

Do not pay the bill and do not answer the door to the bailiff.

I think you should speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau they should be able to advise on what action to take next.

Did you send him to school every day with a packed lunch? Or did he have the meals & you assumed he was on free school meals then they found out he wasn't entitled?

Do not pay the bill - it could be seen as an admission of guilt.

Contact your local MP, Local Paper, School Governers.

This is outrageous and I am on your behalf!

Certainly do not pay anything. If it has gone this far without anyone listening, I'd be inclined to contact your local councillor (at the Borough). The school must have some system for ordering school lunches. Either it's computerised (most likely) or on paper. Either way, there should be some sort of audit trail by which they can "prove" that your child had the lunches. To be honest, as a classteacher, I can remember reasonably well those children who had a very fixed lunch habit - eg who always had school lunches or who always had a packed lunch. MP idea is a good one too.

PS - To get FSM you have to register with the council. A school won't supply FSM unless the council gives them permission. So I don't see how a mistake like that could have happened either.

Quick post as dd2 is ill and I have just finished a nightmare day at work.

Spoke to baliff he has agreed to do nothing until I have come to an 'agreement' with the school and council. He hasn't said a definite timeframe but I shall be calling him back when I have more info to discuss it further.

Council have refused to get involved and have told me to deal direct with school.

School keep passing me back and forth between various staff members. Have got the secretary to promise she will copy and fax all the info they have.

Ds always went to school with a lunch bag. I never even applied for free school dinners. I knew I was not eligable.

The only possible thing I can think of is there was another child with a similar name. I.e. Jack A Jack B

I'm pretty sure he did have school dinners. Not sure whether or not they were free though. I suppose I could find out if needed.

Will be back later to post again, if I don't collapse from exhaustion

Mumatron, I have been watching this thread and hoping that you can get this sorted. I don't really have any advice to add, seems like you're getting there now.

Good luck in getting it sorted. I hope they give you a massive apology.

Hope you get it sorted.