How do I know if DCs are good enough for grammar school?

[Cleek]

I am just a little curious about those got into grammar school were they always in the top sets/groups in everything in year 4 and 5? Does it mean that there is no chance for children in the middle groups or bottem groups to pass 11+?

Get a test paper and try it on them. Get tutoring. Sit the paper yourself on the kitchen table. There's only one way to find out really.

There's another thread on the same subject here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/1416697-Super-selectives-how-do-we-know-if-were-kidding-ourselves.

Really it will depend on the area and how much competition there is, but the whole point of grammars is that they only take the most academically able children, and in most places this means maybe the top 10-25 per cent. So yes, in practice this would generally mean being in top groups at school.

But children's performance can improve over time, so if your DC is in middle groups now but is only in year 2/3/4, it's possible they make get closer to the required standard by year 6. And grammar school tests usually involve some papers on verbal and/or non-verbal reasoning as well as the stuff actually taught in school, so you can try them out with some practice papers and see how they take to it.

It depends too on their peers in their class. For example half of the class of 30 yr6 in our school passed their 11+; clearly if you have (for ease of calculation on my aging brain) 6 tables with 5 children on each, sorted by ability, then the top 3 tables would have passed the 11+. At the school I attended only 3 out of a year group of 90 passed the 11+ when I did; so (if they even differentiated then), clearly not even all of the top table of one class would have passed.

It all depends on as pp said what the cut off is for your area and how academic your child's class is. Dd1 seems in a particularly bright class, and children on her middle table have older siblings going to grammar school. I think unless very young/ very academic class probably less likely to pass if in bottom group. Best though to bite the bullet and see what teacher's view is, you're probably not the first to ask, and you might also consider whether is best place for them, just because fairly intelligent doesn't mean that grammar school is the best option.

I agree they would usually be in the top groups. But children can suddenly have a real spurt - my dn struggled academically until Y5 and then suddenly got it together and got 5s in his SATs. So with coaching he could probably have got into grammar school. My dss, otoh, was always top groups, had loads of coaching and got in but is now struggling academically.

If you want your dc to get in, I would ask them how they feel about it. If they are interested I would start coaching in the summer before Y5 starts. That way, you can do it in a gentle way.

Just my dd teacher told that she is very well meeting targets in Eng and maths and should get something like at least 3a or b at the end of yr4. So I wonder if it is worth giving dd some extra support so that she has a chance to go for gs.

The question you should be asking is
'How do i know if the grammar schools are good enough for my DC?'

Sorry I don't know what's got into me this evening I haven't even opened the yet

But my dd is only in middle groups though?! BUT some people say DCs need to be two years ahead of their own year to have a chance for gs.

My DD was in the year below her for Maths in yr 4. She was average at Maths until yr 3 when a combination of her school burning down (during school whilst they were trapped on the field in view of it collapsing into itself), the trauma of a temporary school in another town for 2 yrs with coaches to school and a crap teacher with no empathy although he kicked the fence and a wall down to get the kids out he was totally unempathic with children who were traumatised

She got back into the correct class for yr 5 and 6 and attained a level 5 in leaving SATS (with help from a tutor on yr 4 catch up work)

She was always top groups for literacy and a weekly reader if that.

I think a lot depends on their attitude to learning. What does the head say? Or current class teacher?

We are having parent evening soon in couple weeks so I can check with her teacher again.

My DD's primary average child started well above the national average according to ofsted. Rural expensive village, something like 2% on free school meals too which apparently has a bearing on that

I guess it depends on the level of competition for the places - it sounds much harder to get into grammars in some areas rather than others due to the numbers of children applying, and only the best so many get in.

Ask her teachers for some guidance and start doing the Bond Assessments with her

The school did have about 40% of children got places in local grammer schools though. But don't know if the school will do consistantly well every year.

Please don't talk about whether your child is good enough for a school. I know you probably mean it to sound the way it does. The question is is he likely to be able to pass a particularl set of tests? It's nothing to do with "good."

I just honestly don't know what the standard is. I just want my dd to get in the best suitable school for her. It is hard to know at this early age. I just I don?t want my dd to miss the opportunity if she stands a chance. I am happy enough if she gets in a good comp.

If you're talking nc levels, they'd need to be approaching level 5 by the end of yr 5. So 4c/4b at the end of yr 4 would be a good indicator.