How do pronounce this phoneme? (reception phonics)

[HooverTheHamaBeads]

' ure '
Is it 'you-er' or 'yor'

People can pronounce sure, manure etc differently so dom't know which is the 'recommended current pronunciation.

Any help??

Maybe the last entry in this list
www.mumsnet.com/learning/phonics/listen-to-the-44-phonic-sounds

They're not the same phoneme:

'sure' rhymes with 'paw' (the 'aw" sound can be spelled a number of ways, and is "or" in learnandsay's list).
'manure' rhymes with 'pure' ('ure' on the list).

Learning that the same sound can have different spellings, and that the same spelling can have different sounds is part of phonics. Your DC will probably be able to give other examples of this that they've already covered in class.

Sounds like 'yer' according to that I think, closer to you-er than yor.

I am not British born so don't want to confuse DD with my colonial pronunciation!!

You can listen to the 44 sounds on that list.

The worksheet school has provided gives the pronunciation as 'yor' with the corresponding action as a pointed finger (your)

Example words are sure, pure, cure but still I am confused as I would say pure as peer, sheer and quewer.

That should be pure as 'pewer', damn tablet

As the school is suggesting that "pure" and "sure" rhyme, then they are either in an area with a very non-standard accent, or the teacher doesn't have an adequate grasp of phonics .

I hate this phoneme! When I'm teaching it it seems pointless as there are only a few words it applies to and it would be covered later when learning split digraphs (u-e). I say 'you-er'. Manure, pure, cure.

God this has confused me no end and I have a degree in linguistics!

Sure and pure DO rhyme, don't they? Paw is a whoel different phoneme surely? I'm scottish though so that's probably / hoepfully why!!

Now I am confusing myself

I say sure as 'shore'
Pure as 'pewer'
Cure as 'quewer'

I am not sure if the school is suggesting pure, sure and cure should rhyme it doesn't say that exactly but they have provided 'yor' as the pronunciation for ure

I'm with you Hoover. The phonics book we use at school lists 'sure' and 'pure' as same sounding words. Not the way I speak!

I'm hanging head in shame about my ignorance of Scottish accents.

But in English English, "pure" and "sure" simply do not have the same phoneme, and I would be concerned about a phonics course, if it is intended for use in England, containing such an error.

ure is pronounced yoor

sure = sh-oor
pure=p-yoo-r
cure=c-yoo-r

sure' rhymes with 'paw'

you must be talking a different language from me!

paw=po

I am scottish and sure, pure and cure all have the same end sound. I have never rhymed 'sure' with 'paw' - sounds nothing like it!

Edith - we use Letters and Sounds and it lists them both under the 'ure' sound

I'm with Seona (and I missed the y off s-yoo-r )

Yep, as others have said it depends very much on regional accents.

This discussion by the experts is very useful.

Well, I was dragged up in NZ so I can't claim to speak correctly at the best of times!

pure as 'p'yor' to rhyme with sure does sound odd to me.

There is no known 'qyor'?? There is no known 'quewer'?

Fascinating to read other people's accents, shesparkles!

"po" to me rhymes with "go" which sounds nothing like the rhyming group paw/pore/shore/sure.

pore and shore rhyme to me but paw and sure dont rhyme with each other or any of the others in that group

Interesting link. I occasionally bring up the subject of dropping 'ure' but because I'm only a TA I'm ignored . It's good to know it's contentious in other settings.

For me, pore and shore rhyme, paw nearly sounds the same but not quite! ( the or bit is shorter!) but sure sounds nothing like!

Another phonics question- I've always been told that, as a Northerner (I'm Manc) we have an extra 3 phonemes.

Does anyone here know what they are?

Also, the ure sound is not the same in my accent. We did Read Write Inc training in my last primary school, and I really stuck out like a sore thumb for my inability to recognise the London version of sounds. Thankfully I taught year 4, and so I didn't ruin things too much for the kiddies.

You won't have three extra phonemes - they are decided as the contrasting units of sound which make a difference to meaning.

Phonetics is different - that describes the actual sound you make for each phoneme, and us how you can show the difference between accents. I suspect that what was meant is that the accent has some well-entrenched phonetic variations on certain phonemes.

we dont worry too much about this one in our school cos we all say it differently
Im geordie so it comes out: sure=shoe-a, evrything ends with an 'a' sound!