compulsory whole class instrument tuition.

[halfrom]

Can anybody advise my position here. My dd's school have the above for a whole school year. There is little choice of instrument and it has to be brass. A teacher from local authority comes in once a week.
Music forms an important part of dd's home and social life and she plays 3 instruments including voice. My dh is a leading musician in his field and a well respected educator. We both don't want these lessons as we feel it will be detrimental to her good attitude towards practice and create embouchure problems with another instrument she plays. Most of the children don't practice from one week to the next, don't progress and never perform anything at school events. It is a very small school and their reason for not offering tuition in other instruments. This I feel is rubbish as other schools I know of same size offer any instrument the parent requests.
What are my rights to refuse these lessons. I know a parent can opt out of RE is this the same? Also what provision for alternative work/ class should I expect to receive. We both usually support the school and aren't difficult parents and have no problem with anything else. Oh the lesson is the one before lunch about an hour. Recently a parent objected and was told to just take the instrument home and bring it every week. Dd's class are due next year.

Go and talk to the school, and explain how you feel this level of teaching, on a differnet instrument, will undermine her out of school musical progress. Maybe you could ask if she could go to the library and practice her regular instruments, or else just read.

How will she feel to be singled out and barred from these lessons?

Do you really think they will do enough work to do any harm? It will just be another 30 mons, won't it? DS learned exactly 3 notes during his year of this kind of teaching. Surely your dd will be able to separate it in her mind from the music she does at home?

If you feel that strongly I would talk to the school.

DS was lucky in that his class did an instrument he already played, but they didn't actually play that much. There was a lot of clapping and rhythm work, they didn't even get the instruments out until after half term (and they were never allowed to take them home).

I wouldn't have thought it would interfere with her practise regime, DS didn't regard it as 'music lessons' if you see what I mean, and he also has a good attitude to practise.

My daughter's school do the same thing, though it's brass and other woodwind. So there's trombone, trumpet, French horn, flute, saxophone, clarinet plus a couple of others. The kids got to choose which instrument they wanted.

What instrument does your daughter play, that has the embouchure conflict? I wonder if they would be up for her playing that as part of the lesson?

They can't "make" you take an instrument - you have to accept responsibility for the instrument by signing for it, so I wouldn't worry about that. The people who run it love music and would want to involve your daughter in a way that works for her, surely? I'd try to talk to the teachers.

They don't teach them to read music with it, but by do-re-mi. I really can't see that the lessons would harm your daughter if she can accommodate it with one of her existing instruments, so you don't have the embouchure problem, which I do understand is an issue, and so will the teachers.

The kids love it, and you sound awfully harsh (but we all do when it's the thing we care about) - some of these kids never get the chance to try instruments any other way - your daughter is lucky to have already. My daughter is loving the trombone, and yes, she'll not take it further, but she has appreciated the chance of doing it (they did various drums last year, which was great for appreciating rhythm).

Anyway, I'd try to talk to the music teacher sooner than later to put your mind at rest.

As a music co-ordinator myself, I would think your concerns are reasonable. (We have a similar scheme, but with strings, though I refused to have whole classes learning. We also offer lessons on 10 different instruments, currently.)

The problem for the school wouldn't be her opting out, but what to do with her during the lessons, as the teacher will have to be in the class lesson with the peripatetic teacher. Supervision will, therefore, be a problem.
I think if you suggested she brought in some written theory to work through during the lesson, and asked whether she could sit in another class to do it, that would be a fair enough request. If you are available during the day, you could always request to take her away for that hour to practise her own instruments? That would be a more useful way to spend her time.

Your biggest problem will be whether they have a musician on the staff who will understand that your concerns are reasonable! (A properly trained musician in a primary school is a rare thing!) Say exactly what you've said above, explaining it in detail, and demonstrating the problems if necessary so that they understand the problems.

DS's year did flute, and one of his friends played flute to a high level already. She was allowed to opt out of the teaching, although she had to sit in with another class and do some set work while the rest of her class did the flute lesson.

SnapSnafu - our kids learn to read music. All depends on the approach of the individual teacher/music service.

Do agree that it wouldn't do too much harm and she'd probably enjoy the musicality side of things. But I also understand your concerns - very frustrating when you have a musical child who's been taught really well. You don't want those standards lowered!

As you can see I'm a night owl. My apologies if I sounded harsh I do feel strongly about music lessons and agree that children should all be given the opportunity to play whatever their background. In fact it's a soap box of mine, so it doesn't sit easy really wanting to opt out. Its the lack of choice I object to and the ethos of the school towards music. I was a teacher before kids and have studied music to gr8 standard. I offered them free recorder lessons at any time to suit them, I have crb and experience in other schools. They weren't a bit interested. Thats nothing to do with my decision though as I help out at school as a voluntary TA. I know their reaction if I ask for alternative arrangements they will treat me as an added problem. In fairness though the lessons allow their class teacher her planning time, so maybe another class would be an option. My dd is gr 4 standard (Y3) and will be aprox gr8 on leaving junior and is taught by really good pro musicians. The TA told her she was wrong the other day when asked to clap the rhythm of a piece of music she did this and the TA told her it was the beat and she was wrong. She was quite upset and assured me she had got it right. She plays violin saxophone and vocal, sorry, I forgot to add. I am mostly concerned about the conflicting musical education and if possible think I'd opt for set work. Thank you all for your responses. If she ever becomes world famous I'll remember your suggestions. She's not too hot on the maths, average at Literacy, hate parents blowing trumpets so had to get that in.

Although not a 'properly trained musician' I am a primary school teacher and reasonably capable musician (grade 8 on one instrument plus a couple of grade 6s on others) so am going to share what I think would be my response in the circumstances....

Depending upon the set-up in school in terms of availability of spare rooms, where the instrumental lessons take place etc. I would either suggest that you provide your DD with some theory work to do during these sessions or, see if it might be possible for her to practise one of her instruments elsewhere whilst the class have their brass lesson each week. If your DD were in my class and you chose to exclude her from the lesson I would expect you to provide some music-related work that she could get on with independently - I'd understand your position but wouldn't expect to have to 'teach' her during the session as my role would be to support the peripatetic teacher/children who needed it.

However, I would also want to know what your DD felt about taking part/not in class music; is she someone who enjoys ensemble playing? Would she feel disappointed if she was the only child in the year group to be in the audience instead of the ensemble were they to play in assembly/other event (regardless of the current set-up it doesn't mean that they won't next year!). My main concern would be that by preventing her from participating in class music you may end up with a DD who decides that she doesn't want to play any instrument any more which would possibly be harder to deal with than a session which will contain a few minutes of playing once a week - not exactly embouchure-enhancing but every child/teenage musician that I've ever known spends a fair amount of time swapping instruments with friends, on occasions even for entire orchestra rehearsals .

Speak to your DD, the LA music service and the Head and try to find out if next year will definitely be brass and what the music service advise for children in your DD's position. Given how things are going you may well find that there is no such scheme next year which would solve all your problems!

My sons class did not get a choice of instrument (Violin) however he can now a year and a bit later read music he has practiced every week and continues to do lessons now with 3 other boys who have continued with the violin as well. I have been more than happy with this approach. I dont claim to be a musician however instead of going in going "I dont want this" why not go in with a " we can solve this approach " and ask " how do you intend to support my child so she wont have embouchure problems with her current instrument" How do you intend to ensure she doesnt get confused over what she already know"

Only once your completly certain they wont be able to aid with this do I think you should say absolutely no but hopefully by that time the school will already be wishing you would pull her out and will be helpful.

Is this part of the Wider Opportunities in Music scheme ? My dd learnt the cornet/trumpet through the LEA music service visiting her school to organise a whole year band and also offering this scheme. The subsidised lessons were very valuable in starting her off on this instrument and she is still playing today at her secondary school and LEA music centre. I would have thought that as a music specialist you would fully support this scheme, as not every child is as fortunate as your daughter being able to have private lessons in 3 instruments.
I notice that you do not mention which instruments your dd plays but at dds school if they played or owned an instrument at home that could be accommodated in the band they were encouraged to bring that with them. If your dd plays the flute or clarinet could that be fitted in ? If she plays the piano could she help by providing an accompanying the band? I would have thought the tutors who run this band would welcome a musical child with open arms and be keen to use their talents.

Thank you for your comments and suggestions. I'm sorry if it sounded like I didn't appreciate the opportunity schools have to play music. On the contrary I think all children should. I played clarinet and was pretty much self taught as no teacher in the area I lived at all. My parents fully supported me. The school don't have a band but this isn't a problem. I certainly wouldn't approach the school in a bad way at all. I respect and get on well with the teachers and enjoy volunteering to help. I see the scheme work in many schools but unfortunately not ours. I think its the lack of choice of instrument and the whole class tuition thing that puts the children off. It's a very small school so as you can imagine we all know pretty much everybody. The children are demotivated was what I was referring to when I said the children don't practice. I have heard of parents discouraging by saying stop that racket I'm watching tv to a lovely girl who wanted to practice. So its like a culture really, I don't blame anyone in particular, it just exists at our school and community. This may be why I sound like I don't support the scheme itself. I do appreciate that everybody isn't as lucky as my little girl and don't expect school to cater for her needs in music as that would be wrong, unfair and selfish. I just wanted a few opinions and views before I approached them. As I say its not until next year and the music coordinator will be her class teacher then. We get on well as her daughter plays clarinet she talks to me about it. (Daughter not at same school). Thank you for your responses.