Learning to read

[cairnterrier]

Please can someone explain to me how children are currently taught to read? DS is just starting to pick out letters (the first letter of his name, M for Mummy, D for Daddy) but am I right in thinking that the 'name' of letters is now pronounced differently eg 'mmm' for M rather than 'em'.

I'm just wondering if it's worth getting hold of some books so that I know what I'm doing and ties in with what he'll learn at school (and at nursery?? do they cover this as well?) or shall I just carry on with reading books with him and pointing out letters and pronoucing them as I always have. Do children get confused if they learn one thing at home and then have to unlearn it?

I realise that thinking about this at a young age is a bit PFB but I could read before I went to primary school so want to know what I'm doing in case DS heads this way too.

I was also wondering about getting hold of some of the older reading books but is the repeating style of reading now frowned upon? For example the books (poss printed by Ladybird?) that had a very simple two word sentence on one page and a picture on the other?

Apologies if these are all very basic questions, DS is our first child so have no experience of what methods are taught nowadays.

My DS is in Year 1, so started learning to read last year. Before school he could recognise a few letters and his name, but no more than that (he was only just 4)

In his school (most I think?) they learn through 'phonics', so letter sounds rather than names. If you google something like 'jolly phonics' you should find some resources.

Like you I was v early reader, and was a bit bored by reading schemes at school, but DS really seems to be getting the hang of it and now enjoys choosing his school reading books.

Most important thing though is just reading lots and lots of different books with them, and helping them develop a love of reading.

There's a difference between knowing the letter names, as in the abc song, and actually using the official names when spelling. They need to know the letter sounds in order to work out unfamiliar words. I don't remember how we did it in the old days if we were taught learn and say. I know I was taught learn and say. I'm guessing we figured out an element of phonics for ourselves. My daughter who is three uses both methods now. She started off only using official letter sounds and responding only to words she already recognised. But there seems to be some innate phonic reasoning going on, because she's naturally switched now to using a combination of word recognition and phonics. (That's lucky because that's how English works.) Even with phonics school children are still sent home with lists of words to learn.

Sorry, look and say, not learn and say.

Even with phonics school children are still sent home with lists of words to learn.

What lists? They shouldn't be.....

Phonics at ds's nursery. These books are excellent and tie in with what they learn in class. I'm not sure how old your ds is, but even if he can't use these yet, it's good in that it gives fun "tips" on learning. E.g. sssssss makes the snake, ppp ppp pufff for blowing out the candle etc. [rubbish at explaining]

am I right in thinking that the 'name' of letters is now pronounced differently eg 'mmm' for M rather than 'em' .

No the name is still "em" but children are taught the 44ish sounds found in the English language and how they are represented when written down not the names. This is because names don't help us to work out what the words "say" and they don't help us to spell.
www.sounds-write.co.uk/docs/sounds_write_common_spellings_of_the_consonants_and_vowels.pdf

I agree with feenie they shouldn't be sending home lists of words to learn

Feenie, they're sometimes referred to as tricky words, sight words or key words.

God, I hope they aren't still referred to as sight words or key words!

Tricky words are words to be read, not learnt, with a tricky 'bit' They need a little more practice than other, fully decodable words, but sending them home as lists to be 'learnt' sends the wrong message, imo.

Well, what do you do if the school is sending home lists of letters to learn? Presumably you learn them. You wouldn't want to be the only child in the class who didn't know them.

Oh dear!!

no wonder we need a phonics screening test in Y1 ...

www.teachfind.com/national-strategies/letters-and-sounds-phase-two-%E2%80%93-teaching-tricky-words

Good question, learnandsay (not a fan of your username for these reasons, btw ) I would be talking (and am talking, actually) to the school about their phonics teaching and the use of look and say schemes vs decodable readers.

And lists of words to 'learn'.

This Year 1 leaflet for parents, new this month, advises parents that their child?s teacher 'will also be able to suggest books with the right level of phonics for your child. These books are often called ?decodable readers? because the story is written with words made up of the letters your child has learnt.'

Where's the oe sound as in toe?

How do you make bow as in bow and arrow with these sounds?
Or bough (what happens to the gh) or in some words to you simply remember how they're written?

www.mumsnet.com/learning/phonics/listen-to-the-44-phonic-sounds

They're all perfectly decodable, learnandsay:

www.phonicsinternational.com/unit1_pdfs/DH%20Alph%20Code%20overview%20with%20teaching%20points%20-%20A4x7.pdf

Children learn the 44 sounds in Reception, and go on to learn alternatives afterwards - 'ow' has two alternatives, for example, as you say.

Does learn the alternatives mean learn the words which don't follow the rules? As in learn how to remember and spell words which don't fit the forty -four sound pattern?

I'm clearly not saying words aren't decodable otherwise I wouldn't be able to read them. But I also know what they say.

Does learn the alternatives mean learn the words which don't follow the rules?

Depends what 'rules' you mean. There are very, very few words which aren't decodable - if children are taught the code. Alternative ways of writing the sounds are taught in Year 1.

Learn the alternatives means learn the different ways the sounds can be written in English

oa can be written

oa as in road
oe as in toe
o_e as in pole
ow as in snow
ou as in soul
ough as in though
and o as in go

L & S,

I am worried by the fact that you think there is a 'forty-four sound pattern. There isn't. There are about 44 sounds used to build the spoken word in English (depending on accent) and some 160 -180 common ways in which the sounds are represented by a letter or group of letters in the written word.

The 'sounds' whichyou are querying are not 'sounds' at all. They are sound spellings (or graphemes). Children first learn one way to spell each of the 44 'sounds' and then the 'alternative' spellings.

It is a good idea to become familiar with the very simple glossary of 'phonics' terms else there is room for lots of confusion.

'phonic sounds' is tautology.

thanks everyone, might look at getting some of those phonics books and mix them in with the other books that we read.

No, they're neither - the 44 are the phonemes of English. They ar the units of sound which can be demonstrated (by contrasting pairs) to make a difference to the sense of a word.

I suppose that's an experience good, you'd have to know the code and every word in the English language to know whether or not that was true, and remember every application.

There also seems to be something experimental about the DH Alph code that you've kindly posted above. It explains that children should be taught, in cases of ambiguity, to 'try' the short sound first and then successively longer alternatives where previous attempts "did not sound right."

If you don't already know a word I'm not sure how you'll know whether or not your current attempt sounds right or not. How would you judge? Take a word like Aechean. You could say that it's not an English word, it's Greek. But it is in the English language, albeit borrowed from the Greek. But when you first come across it you'd be forgiven for hesitating before trying to pronounce it. Heinous is another word which varies in its pronunciation.

Have a look at the e books on MN learning and free e books at Oxfordowl

Sorry, was distracted so a bit of cross-posting there.

Marking place, some great links on the thread.