Music teachers or parents of musical children

[jubilee10]

Ds3 is 5.8. His older brothers both play violin and I hope he will play a violin/cello when he is older. There are no violin/cello babies classes near us or I would start with that. I wonder about starting him with piano lessons. What age is best to start? Do you think this is a good Idea or would I be better to wait and see if he is offered strings at school?

lots of piano teachers won't take children until 7 or 8 once their hands are big enough to stretch across enough keys. There is also the issue of concentration - I have 2 6year olds in my class having piano lessons and 1 is fine and the other is getting nowhere as he can't sit still for 30 minutes let alone concentrate on the piano.

Thanks. Ds is generally quite focused and I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem sitting still but he is quite small so I can understand that he may have difficulty reaching the keys. I suppose that's the benefit of violin, an instrument to suit his size. Hmmmm.

DD1 is 9 and has been having piano lessons for 18 months. Even now, she is still building up the strength in her fingers. Her teacher doesn't take children under 7 and prefers to wait until they are 8.

Hi there! I am a musician and teach/have taught 'cello and piano. I would recommend waiting until Year 2 for piano and year 2/3 for string instrument. I used to teach year 1 beginners the piano and I noticed that the children who waited to start in year 2 would catch up those who started in year 1 within a term. Year 2 just seems the right age for most- some could do with waiting till year 3 but generally year 2 is fine.

For string instruments if you have some experience in the family and he is keen then it is fine to start in year 2, but if in any doubt again wait- I started 'cello at 8 and piano at 6.5. I taught some year 1 beginners 'cello too, but I would say proceed with caution at this age, year 2 much better generally, progress is quicker. I taught a violin teacher's daughter who was cautious not to push her daughter into playing so she waited until she was year 4. She progressed really quickly and there was no harm in waiting, in fact it gave her time to concentrate on her other interests up to this point.

My DS1 (6, Y1) goes to a strings programme for his age group and loves it. He wants to learn piano but I'll wait until he's 7 or 8, as I think it's harder, and he's got enough to concentrate on. I think a cello is great for a young child - much easier than piano.

Thank you all so much. Ds sees his older brothers with their violins (they both play in 3 orchestras and are doing standard grade/higher grade music) and he asks for one of his own. We have an outgrown 3/4 size, much too big for him, which he refers to as 'my violin'.

I used to take his brothers to a pre school music group but worked full time by the time ds3 arrived and his school seems to place a lot of emphasis on sport and less on music which annoys me (but that's for another thread).

I will wait a couple of years and hope he gets offered a string instrument through school. They only take 4/5 children each year but the string instructor at the school teaches my eldest son so knows that we would be in it for the duration. Most children seem to drop out before they finish primary

I have read a bit about violin/cello babies and other groups designed for younger children but there's nothing like that here!

Thanks again

Hi OP,
can't you get a teacher to come and teach him the violin at home?
My 5 year old has been having violin lessons since September and he is doing very well. He has also started the piano. There is no real reason why he would not be able to do it. I know a number of children who have started the violin at 5 years old, it is not uncommon at all - different story with the piano, but if it is the violin you want then there is no reason why not start.

I started learning the piano aged 4. My gran was a piano teacher so we just made it into a game, only used the keys I could reach easily, but it gave me such a solid grounding in music and musical theory I would reccommend piano playing for any musical child.

I later progressed onto trumpet and saxophone, eventually doing a music degree on my saxophone, but when working out theory (chords, intervals, key signatures, etc) I always think of a piano keyboard in my head.

I think as long as you take it slowly your DS could easily start piano now. The novelty might help him 'forget' about the violin/cello until he's old enough?

My girls started piano at 5 and 6 - but did not start the grading circus til 9, when their fingers were strong, they could reach an octave and they were mature enough mentally.

My DS started piano at 4 with "Bastiens' Invitation To Music: Piano Party Book A". He didn't need to have strong fingers, the first songs are about jumping along the keyboard with your fists! It's a lot about rythm and getting to know the instrument. It's a lot of fun. Grades can wait. There is no reason a child cannot be introduced to piano just because of the size of their fingers. To make a nice sound on the violin is much harder, IMO! If he has a thirst for music, start him at the piano and then if he wants you can add the violin. The piano is such a good base for every other instrument. Also, in a few years he can play simple piano and strings duets with his brothers!

It depends very much on the child. If you are very keen of course you can start early, but some/a lot of 4/5/6 year olds would rather be playing and why shouldn't they? They also don't suit the formal approach that most teachers use. Informal approaches when on offer for younger children are fine and great when a family member can just do a little bit and keep it fun etc, but there is a risk of putting some children off if they don't take to it. What is really good at this age is lots of singing and movement to music. It can be done in a class if there is one or just at home within the family jumping around with his brothers!

itsonlyyear4 I would love to get a teacher to come to the house but we are in the Scottish Highlands and teachers are few and far between and when I was looking for some extra lessons for ds2 a few years ago I couldn't find anyone with spaces.

Our local music festival starts the week after next so I will ask around. Thank you everyone for your advice - a lot to think about.

With the Suzuki method children start the violin as early as 3. But I'm not sure it's really that advisable. I started when I was 7 and ended up playing in a professional orchestra by the time I was 18, so there's no disadvantage to waiting if your child is talented and interested.

On the other hand, my back is now completely buggered because of the years I spent playing the violin seriously, and my DCs will definitely NOT be learning the violin, or any other instrument that encourages your muscles to develop asymmetrically.

Tgger his brothers play for him to dance and he has a cd player and his own cd's which he loves. He is always singing and puts on "concerts" with his toy guitar, recorder, tin whistle (none of which he can actually play) and microphone. I totally agree that this is what he should be doing. My op was really in response to him asking, once again, for a violin. I'm not really in a hurry to spend more money but wondered if I was doing him a disservice. His brothers were 7.5 when they started.

As another piano teacher I second what Tgger says about the piano, I don't start children until Year 2, and later starters often do better. Piano is complicated by the need to read and play both hands (written in different clefs) at the same time. How about teaching him the recorder yourself? It would still give him the grounding in pitch and rhythm, and the pleasure of being able to play a tune for himself.

why not buy him a second-hand violin appropriate for his current size? the cost of the instrument will be far less than the cost of lessons. His brothers will be briefly excited and try to show him things. Odds are he'll take a break from it pretty quickly after the flurry of excitement. If he doesn't end up having lessons until he's ready for a bigger size, you can sell it in a couple of years' time.

And if he doesn't look after it , then you definitely know he wouldn't be ready for lessons!

I think access to instruments is a big issue. Ideally we'd all have a room in our house full of instruments and our children would wander round touching them and trying them and eventually choosing one .

it is just as easy for him to pluck one of the middle strings (instrument held guitar-style, not under chin) while his brother plays a tune in D as it is to play drums/tambourine.

I'm a pro violin/viola player and second what Tgger says- particularly about 7year olds catching up very quickly. I personally started piano at 7 and violin at 10- piano was a brilliant introduction to music as it's very visual. Wouldn't recommend leaving violin that late though- I always felt like I was a late starter. I think ear training and singing at this age is the best thing you can do, and after a disastrous attempt at Suzuki with my own DD at 2 I'm holding off until they are both fluent readers with some understanding of what it means to practise!

Hi, my dd is 8 and started Piano at 4 played till 6, then decided she wanted to play violin started lessons and is now grade 3/4. Starting saxophone soon. The important thing I feel is the childs practice time. They need to enjoy this or else it is just hard work as obviously they see no improvement. DD practices for 1 hour on violin and will on sax too eventually. We are a musical family tho her dad a pro/ international musician. Not that this makes her a better player, just helps get the attitude right.

I think you're doing a younger child a disservice if you don't take him seriously when he wants to do something he sees his siblings doing - it's not as if he's making an uneducated request.

I was the youngest of several siblings and nagged my parents for ages to let me play the piano, having seen my siblings all learning it, which I eventually started at about age 5 or 6. I found it a fantastic instrument to start with. By the time I started other instruments, I could read music fluently, knew a lot of theory, had a good ear for chords, had strong hands and good co-ordination etc, etc., so, for example, took grade 5 clarinet within a few months of starting (admittedly I played the recorder at primary school, too, which probably helped!) and eventually played 3 instruments to grade 8 level. Playing an instrument where you only have to read one line is a doddle after learning the piano. And, if you are motivated and extremely keen, learning any instrument at a young age can be so much fun. Both my dss have started learning the piano - ds1 started at the beginning of year 2, when he was 6. His teacher was initially not keen on the idea, as she normally started children at 7, but rapidly changed her mind after he'd started and happily took ds2 on at age 5, in year1. Both have excellent concentration spans, it has to be said. They adore the piano and are an awful lot better at it already than I was at that age! I would love them to learn another instrument at some point, but piano is enough for the time being and is so much more pleasant on the ears than beginner violin...