11+ - should I be doing anything!!!!

[sleepwouldbenice]

Hello all

my DD1 is in year 4 in an area with 11+ exams and grammar school system - on the Wirral if that helps - and I am starting to wonder if / when / what we should be doing about considering the 11+.

Whatever the outcome I dont want to think I should have done more / started earlier !!!!

My first question I guess is if she will pass it - Her year end targets, which hopefully she will achieve, are:

• 3a or above for reading
• 3b for writing, and maths

Is this "good enough"? I know its early days and things can change but its all I have at the moment. I think its borderline myself but would appreciate everyones views.

The school are reluctant to give opinions at this stage and (of course) dont really talk about 11+ that much, the focus being on teaching rather than grooming for 11+!

My second question would be, if she was considered to be suitable to take the 11+, when should you start tutoring? / book a tutor. I am aware from a recent thread and local comments, that tutoring to get the exam technique is considered necessary and have reluctantly accepted this. But again dont know when to look for tutors to book / start.

In terms of my own views, I am concerned that if she is borderline but does pass the 11+ then she may then struggle at the grammar school and be demotivated.

Therefore I may have some thinking to do. I am happy that the local comprehensive is a good school so at least have no concerns about her going there if necessary. But, if she could pass the 11+ and be happy then I dont want her to "miss out"

I guess I also need to do some online research of the schools (as well as local opnion) - could anyone recommend where you can get honest views of performance and i guess life at secondary schools?

Many thanks for your help

I don't know anything about the grammars in yr area OP and what percentage they take (obviously the higher the %age eg some take 25% I believe, the lower the necessary ability IYSWIM).

With that caveat, I would say a child achieving 3bs at the end of year 4 is not grammar school material if that means the top xx%. A good number of children achieve level 3 at end of year 2. So if I were you, unless you discover that your grammars take a pretty high percentage, I agree that she might really struggle even f she got into the grammar.

Sorry that last sentence went a bit wrong. I meant if I were you I wuld forget about the grammar and focus on the comp.

Hi Sleepwouldbenice:

My DD1 is also in Y4 and we also have selective grammar schools in our area so I'm also wrestling with these questions.

First off my understanding is that if there is a lot of competition your child has to be to the point of having already mastered Y6 curriculum to score high enough to win their place in the grammar school. Given that tests are taken before Christmas in Y6 - that means that they have to be working at levels 6 - 12 months ahead of 'average' children.

Now by Y6 the government requires L4 on KS2 SATs. In our area the grammars tend to select children that ultimately go on to get L5 on the KS2 SATs.

So my advice is this right now in Y4 - really put the time in at home on reading and maths. Utilise as many free resources as you can. I highly recommend BBC Learning [BETA] website. Go in through schools & teachers boxes on right hand side and then on left hand side select KS2 and curriculum topic from orange box toward middle of page: link here: www.bbc.co.uk/schools/teachers/. I also highly advise you take advantage of BBC Bitesize KS2 games especially in English and maths: www.bbc.co.uk/schools/ks2bitesize/. Don't overdo it - but encourage 15 - 20 minutes of game play, reviewing maths & English especially, to just broaden understanding and review basic skills.

There was a little free pamphlet from Bond at our local WH Smith shop about taking the 11+ and I undrestand there is a book for parents with more information about the whole run up to taking the exam: www.bond11plus.co.uk/shop/product/399-bond-the-parents-guide-to-the-11. The bond website also has some general info.

My daughter is also 'borderline' for grammar school. I think the thing to do is ask your DDs teacher outright at your next parent/ teacher meeting. Explain that you are very concerned about putting too much pressure on your DD and ask them for their professional advice.

The difficulty is whether your DD would be happier under less pressure but in a senior school where children can freely move up groups as they improve? I don't know anything about senior schools in the Wirral, so if possible I'd ask around. Maybe strike up conversations with parents of current Y6 pupils about whether they took the 11+, if so why? if not why? Ask them what schools they've selected for senior school and why? Basically start using all their homework to your advantage. If your DD takes lessons or is in clubs with Y6 children and their parents are around whilst your waiting to collect your DD, use this time to ask a few questions. Everyone will have an opinion - but the more you hear, the better you'll feel.

Start researching when there will be open days for the grammar schools and senior schools in your area. Nothing beats seeing the place yourself and sometimes seeing what the difference is between standard comprehensive and grammar school can inspire - one of our friends said she couldn't get her DD to study for the 11+ at all early in Y5, but when she saw the grammar school and what they offered, she understood why her parents were asking her to work hard.

Finally, it seems that the test timing has now changed - so you will have the results of the 11+ exam before you apply for senior school places. This does take some of the stress out of the situation, because you no longer have to guess whether you'll pass or not when ordering your preferences for schools.

I don't know what to advise about tutors. I know people do opt for it - but I also know families that just use the practice papers and work with their children at home themselves. The interesting thing is it seems Bond has set up on-line tutorials - which don't look outrageously expensive. I've no idea how good they are - but perhaps other MN members might have some thoughts?

Anyway best of luck - I'm absolutely in the same boat myself!

3b at then end of year 4 is exactly where she should be - ie she is not ahead at all.

I'm in West Kent where we have highly selective Grammar schools. Almost all children who pass the test have had tutors or practice papers from the start of year 5. I cant remember what levels my DDs were at in Y3 but at year 6 they had level 5 in all subjects.

It depends how many places are available, how many entrants and whether or not the grammar is a super selective.

Personally I wouldn't tutor if my child was getting your dd's grades. She's doing fine but she's national average rather than exceptional which is what I'd assume the grammar was after.

If you want to tutor I'd hurry up and find a tutor. It's normal round here to sign up for a tutor in y2/y3.

Thanks so much to everyone for all your advice. I see what you mean about how selective the grammar schools may be will vary in each area. And yes her grades are average so in theory this means she would not pass 11+

I will have a chat with her teacher soon and will certainly look at all that on line information pastsellbydate - thanks so much for all that advice!

Even though it sounds like shes not grammar school material in a way its a relief to know which way to head! Will see how she goes but plan accordingly

Thanks again - love the fact you get so much support and help here!!

Hi sleep I'm also living on the Wirral in the catchment for grammars schools and I also have a DC in year 4! Our school started homework club at the start of year 4 in preparation for the 11+ which, of course, from next year will be brought forward to September of year 6.

We were given 11+ practice papers at the weekend by my Dsis and my DC had a go and really enjoyed it. At our school, not that many children have tutors as the school is good at doing after school sessions and many Parents support their children at home doing the practice papers.

That said, I understand that pupils in the next school down the road mostly have tutors and they have a good pass rate.

Presumably, like us, you will have Parents Evening soon so I'd definitely speak to the teacher about it.

Two of my SDCs went to grammar school and one went to the local comp. All have done well during and since leaving school. Please don't worry that your DD will in some way miss out if she doesn't go to grammar school. We are lucky on the Wirral with excellent schools all round.

Best of luck!

Yes we are lucky, my parents come from south wirral and TBH if the comprehensives werent any good I would move back over the border

Bit vexed as to why some schools seem to do more towards it than others though.....

You need to at least do some exam practice - remember sate schools are aiming for SATs on spring of yr6- they need to be " exam ready" for 11 plus6 months or more before then.

Locally our 11 plus has been moved from mid nov to early sept from 2012 too..

We had a tutor for a year before at a gentle 1hr/ week one to one. They did some fun stuff too though with the tutors eg programable Lego and even some fabulous art- really boosted ds confidence.

We chose a tutor who did Not " cram" them, but just honed their skills ready for testing.

Seemed to work out. They all passed 11 plus and are sailing at the top of their peer groups at school ( uni now in dd1 case).

They were all level 3 at ks1 though and 3/4 by end of yr 3. Level 5 consistently by the end of yr 5 ( and bored!).

Junior school were not allowed to promote / suggest or comment on grammar school choices ( argh!) unless it was pretty much a whisper round the back of thr bike sheds !!

Ps we are in a highly selective grammar area