Am i wrong to refuse to pay for my childs school swimming lesson.

[sep1712]

My DS is in yr3 and about to start swimming lessons.The school want £55! I already pay for lessons at our local pool and he meets the levels for key stage 2. They get a total of 20 mins in the pool with the school. I really dont feel like its value for money. The school say the cost is for travel but they could walk there in 10 mins max!
Should i just pay up and not say anything or stand up and say no?

You don't have to pay what they ask. It does have knock on effects if you don't, however. I suspect they are having to ask for contributions towards swimming because there is a hard core of parents who refuse to contribute towards any school trips whatsoever, even when they can afford to and even though their children attend all trips offered. Schools with a high proportion of children on free school meals get a bit of extra funding to help cover things like swimming lessons, etc. Schools with a lot of hard up (but not sufficiently hard up) parents are reliant on the generosity of those who can afford to contribute doing that so that at least a bit of the cost involved is covered - and the same parents coming to the school fairs and spending money there, and the same parents donating money to the school's supported charities, etc... A state education is technically free, but a state education involving visits from theatre companies and trips to museums requires those who can afford it to help out, or accept that everyone misses out. If a school is offering more trips and extras than most parents are happy to cover the cost of, then it needs to cut back on the extras - then it might be able to provide the swimming for free.

We have to pay just over #40 a term and they do one term a year from yr1-6. It includes transport and coaching. I don't mind too much all the time they are still learning, but hopefully by yr 6 the private lessons will have paid off and then I will be annoyed at paying for them to splash about for 20 mins.

Also some of the less confident swimmers have to go in baby pool (my 2yr old is in his depth); if any of mine were put in that pool to swim I would refuse consent for them to go, as I think, and their swimming teacher (who knows the pool) said was counterproductive being in such shallow water. Just hope dd2 has growth spurt and gets more confident in next year!

I went on the coach as a parent helper to my dd school swimming lessons in year4. They didn't really get to do by the time they got to the pool and changed. It was only her class so only 30 children max. 3 could swim really well so they spent the time doing lengths the others were in one big group doing very basic stuff. didn't see any progress in the children. I wouldn't pay.

I learned to swim with school as a child - we went to the pool every Friday morning - and I grew up taking for granted that swimming was taught at school. When I realised that wasn't going to happen at DD's school, I didn't know what to do initially. I paid for her to go on a week's crash course in the summer she was 4, but she didn't make a lot of progress; I then paid for three half-hour one-to-one lessons the following Autumn half-term and she made a lot of progress; she had another ten or so private lessons the summer she was five, and we did quite a lot of swimming in between.

This year, the school year she is 6/7, she is having semi-private lessons for half an hour every Wednesday with three other children, all of whom she knows. Frankly, when I look at the progress she makes and the enjoyment she gets from it, I know that her swimming is a lot nicer than the swimming I did. School lessons are not really a lot of fun!

It seems i wasn't the only parents in our class that was upset with the price. Alot of parents were unwilling to pay. Very surprised by one parent who doesnt take her child swimming and has refused to even let him go. I thought she'd be greatful that someone was teaching him.
I think all none swimmers should be walked to the pool and not bother with the swimmers that meet the levels.
Other trips that the school offers we always have to contribute.

The school will have to pay for coach, hire of pool and qualified
Instructors. They are not allowed to make a profit off individual students so if you do not pay this comes out of the school budget. Less money for teachers, support staff, equipment materials etc.

You don't actually have to contribute to any school trips taking place in school time - it is all done by voluntary contribution. This means that some parents can and do refuse to contribute to anything whatsoever, but still send their children on the trips. It is not always those who can least afford it who don't pay. Some parents just refuse to pay because they know they aren't obliged to and aren't too bothered that most other parents are paying.

My DS's primary school do a term and a half each per year. We have to pay £5 per lesson for transport, as the pool is over 3 miles away. (i.e. over what they expect 7-11yo's to walk).

It is AWFUL for me this year - DS1 is in Y5, DS2 is in Y3. DS1 finished just before Half term, started in September, and DS2 has just started, and carries on till July. So for the entire school year, this year AND next, I have to pay £5 a week without a break. And I'm a Lone Parent on Income Support...

If your children are entitled to Free School Meals, they are exempt from paying for school trips (including, eg, board and lodging on residential trips, which is one of the few areas where schools are allowed to charge rather than request a voluntary contribution). The school will also be benefiting from a bit of extra funding to help cover this if children get FSMs, so it's worth applying for free school meals if you are entitled, which you should be on Income Support, and then you can have a bit more of a free conscience when you don't contribute to things you know other people are probably paying for, because the Government has decided that you shouldn't be expected to afford paying for it.

I DO get FSM's. The school still refused to help me when I asked for help with the swimming lessons. But then, I am having other issues with the school too - bankrupting myself to pay £5 a week for the entirety of two school years is the very LEAST of it!!

OH - And I had to pay the FULL amount for DD's residential Y6 trip, and I was on FSM's then too, as my Ex-P was claiming JSA for a few months between jobs. £210 that was. And I had to pay it week by fucking week, until Ex-P found a new job (he'd been made redundant, as had I, both within 7 days of each other. THAT was a shit year. ). As soon as he got his first months wage, we paid the outstanding balance off, but if he HADN'T found a job, we still would have had to pay it all.

NOT all schools use the FSM's money wisely - especially if only 3% claim FSM's in a school of 408 pupils...

Huntyccat, do your children swim to a standard you are happy with? In your position I would talk to your ds1 and explain that he can swim and you would rather spend the money on some fun things as a family, then call the school's bluff. They can't make you pay. That might reduce your costs next year. They will probably take him anyway. If there is such a small number of fsm then their pta is probably raising lots of money from wine tasting and bodem fashion shows.

Our school have said it takes them swimming more than it needs to because they want to win swimming galas, obviously the top of my concern too when I am balancing our monthly budgets.

Nope, as I am unable to take them to the pool myself, as I have uncontrolled epilepsy. To take all my dc to the swimming pool, I would need to take at LEAST two adults with me - one for DS1 and DS2, and one for myself! And if I was to take DS3, I'd have to have ANOTHER adult!

I know, and the school knows, that these swimming lessons are the ONLY way my dc will learn to swim. So THEY have ME over a barrel!!

The wine tasting, 'Boden' fashion shows (they have two fashion shows a year...), and quiz nights ARE how the PTA make their money. that you managed to describe my school's PTA down to a 'T' just based on the fact that only 3% claim FSM's!!

Of course they should walk!

sep1712

I think it depends on the LEA whether swimming lessons are free.

I'd contact the LEA and the swimming baths that are providing these lessons. From the LEA find out what their policy is regarding swimming lessons and their funding. They might part-subsidise lessons or they're meant to be free. From the swimming baths explain which school your child is from and query how many lessons there will be and for what duration.

Our DDs get 10 lessons with trained coaches at a pool following the National Swimming Scheme for £3.50 each + an extra 'fun swim' for free in week 11 and parents can join in - so your £55 seems very steep indeed, even with travel included. If this is for only a few weeks of afternoon swimming (say 5 weeks or less) - then this is not good value and you should complain to the governors.

I might also suggest that you discuss this with other parents, so it can be sent in as a group complaint. This circumvents the usual (apologies to teachers out there) formula answer of, 'you're the only parent who has complained' to basically shut you up.

I say this because 5 of us complained about a very expensive residential trip, which left out several children from the class who's parents couldn't afford it for various reasons, and we have subsequently learned that we were each individually told - 'you're the only parent who's raised this' by the Head, who clearly is something of a smooth operator. I think schools sort of treat parents as cash cows who will just unthinkingly send in money.

How I wish there was a "like" button for your post PastSellByDate!

HuntyCat, as it sounds as if there isn't much love between you and the school anyway, you could try what my friend did in your position, and ring the LEA about the extra funding the school was recieving and her children weren't benefiting from. Magically the money appeared after that. It will depend on who you get hold of though in the LEA. I think she just got a letter sent to the school and her, clarifying the position and expectations. They might need to add in an extra quiz night though to support the poor of the parish! I am not sure but I think it she said it was a fairly substantial four figure sum that they get in addition to normal funding for a non fsm pupil, so maybe another fashion show too. Would save paying for residential trips too.

All mine went swimming with primary school and we always had to pay for the coach. I can't remember how much we paid but it wasn't cheap. It's just another thing you accept if you live in a rural area. Mine always had private lessons too but I sent them for school lessons in years 1 &2. Not because they needed more swimming but I thought the coach trip, looking after their kit, drying etc. was as important as the swimming. In the juniors I let the DC choose. If they wanted to go I paid for the term and they went every week and if they didn't they stayed at school and did more school work.

£55 is a lot. If you are paying for your own lessons just don't send them.

Just checked HuntyCat and it is about 500 pounds, maybe my friend was telling me the amount her children were funded for in comparison to those without additional funding. I still think it is worth talking to LEA, it worked for her, afterall it is only 12 pupils in the whole school that it would affect, and the advice is for schools to help. For swimming it is part of the curriculum in ks2, so they are supposed to pay.

Are you sure it's really a 10 minute walk along a safe route? I am struggling to understand why anyone would ask for £55 for a coach for such a short journey, otherwise.

DC walk 10 minutes for school swim lessons, well, they can do it in about 5 minutes with me but with a big group allow 10.

Crikey, ours used to have to walk to their swimming lessons from school and it was at least half an hour's walk.

Huntycat - your school would be breaking the law to force you to pay for swimming lessons, as swimming lessons are a compulsory part of the curriculum, just as much as it would be breaking the law to suddenly inform you that your child's entire education will now cost you £3,000 a term. Your children go to a STATE school, so it is NOT permitted to discriminate against you by insisting you pay for anything it provides during school time, even if it needs the money. They are not allowed to chase you for the money if you refuse to pay, so if they threaten to exclude your children from swimming as a result of not paying, you should inform the school governors and Local Authority (if you particularly want to stir up trouble) that they are abusing the extra FSM funding they are receiving and are breaking the law.

Please see attached link:

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Schoolslearninganddevelopment/SchoolLife/DG_179512

Some of these posts make me realise how fortunate we are in our County that swiiming lessons and travel to the pool is provided free. I didn't realise that some schools charge for this!

No schools are allowed to charge for it. All schools are allowed to request voluntary contributions.

(Sorry, I mean no State schools, of course!...)